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  #81  
Old 06.07.2011, 04:41
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

David Brooks - I don't think he can take anymore of this- he'll turn democrat!

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If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred billion dollars of revenue increases.

But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party.

The struggles of the next few weeks are about what sort of party the G.O.P. is — a normal conservative party or an odd protest movement that has separated itself from normal governance, the normal rules of evidence and the ancient habits of our nation.

If the debt ceiling talks fail, independents voters will see that Democrats were willing to compromise but Republicans were not. If responsible Republicans don’t take control, independents will conclude that Republican fanaticism caused this default. They will conclude that Republicans are not fit to govern.

And they will be right.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html

The teabagger movement is killing the Republican Party.
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  #82  
Old 08.07.2011, 05:45
hoppy
 
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

It isn't the debt, it is the way the Republicans will manipulate this that will ruin the US.

As Warren Buffet explains:

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"We raised the debt ceiling seven times during the Bush Administration," Buffett told CNBC on Thursday. Now, the Republican-controlled Congress is "trying to use the incentive now that we're going to blow your brains out, America, in terms of your debt worthiness over time."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_892332.html
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  #83  
Old 08.07.2011, 08:48
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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It is technically correct that the US has one of the highest corp. tax rates in the world. (I think only Japan has a higher rate). On the other hand it is also true that GE paid zero in terms of corp. tax in 2010. How can you reconcile both of these truths? Just take a look at the IRC (US tax code), and to every regulation in the code you will find an exception or qualification.
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  #84  
Old 08.07.2011, 10:20
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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Whats incredible is that under a republic youre only allowed to tax consumption. I guess the US government forgot about that! ha ha....
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  #85  
Old 08.07.2011, 11:55
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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Is America in denial about the extent of its financial problems, and therefore incapable of dealing with the gravest crisis the country has ever faced?

Denial being a human quality, can one personify a nation ?

Are we at the first of DABDA in the death of the US economy ?
US is at war with half the world for an asset grab and you think its in denial?!
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  #86  
Old 08.07.2011, 16:04
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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If the US has some of the highest corporate taxes and according to this chart that's 8.9%. then what percent to corporations pay in other countries
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  #87  
Old 09.07.2011, 04:02
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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I agree with everything but the organization you pulled the chart from. Here is an article about how Heritage got their credibility destroyed along with that brainless poltician Paul Ryan. http://macroadvisers.blogspot.com/20...-assuming.html
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  #88  
Old 09.07.2011, 04:32
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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I agree with everything but the organization you pulled the chart from. Here is an article about how Heritage got their credibility destroyed along with that brainless poltician Paul Ryan. http://macroadvisers.blogspot.com/20...-assuming.html
Hm! Well spotted, I didn't notice that it was the Heritage Foundation nasty article.
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  #89  
Old 09.07.2011, 05:12
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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Hm! Well spotted, I didn't notice that it was the Heritage Foundation nasty article.
OTOH if you are getting validation of this point of view using info from the Heritage Foundation then it must be true.
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  #90  
Old 09.07.2011, 07:03
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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A typical family, by comparison, pays a total tax rate of about 25 percent.

Arguably, the United States now has a corporate tax code that's the worst of all worlds. The official rate is higher than in almost any other country, which forces companies to devote enormous time and effort to finding loopholes. Yet the government raises less money in corporate taxes than it once did, because of all the loopholes that have been added in recent decades.

Over the past five years, Boeing paid a total tax rate of just 4.5 percent, according to Capital IQ. Southwest Airlines paid 6.3 percent. Yahoo paid 7 percent. And the list goes on: Prudential Financial, 7.6 percent; Time Warner, 11 percent; General Electric, 14.3 percent.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...cle1149038.ece

As for GE?Well GE is just pure genius, which is why Obama recently hired Jeff Immelt. I suppose that the GE tax department may be considered the ace tax hacker, so they may have plenty of advice.
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  #91  
Old 09.07.2011, 07:57
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...cle1149038.ece

As for GE?Well GE is just pure genius, which is why Obama recently hired Jeff Immelt. I suppose that the GE tax department may be considered the ace tax hacker, so they may have plenty of advice.
how much did the banks pay? i'm guessing a lot...
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  #92  
Old 09.07.2011, 08:32
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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I agree with everything but the organization you pulled the chart from.
It's just a chart using CBO numbers, dude. Address the data or ignore it. Try not to have an aneurysm about it.
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  #93  
Old 09.07.2011, 11:50
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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It's just a chart using CBO numbers, dude. Address the data or ignore it. Try not to have an aneurysm about it.
ok dude; I agree with the numbers, also part what I pointed out in a previous post is substantiated in the chart:

"A flipside of the tax system is that ordinary small and medium size businesses and middle income families just file their taxes, sometimes vote their pocket book (go republican for gimmick tax breaks) and end up paying the bulk of the revenues."

Last edited by Cbass; 09.07.2011 at 12:13.
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  #94  
Old 09.07.2011, 17:10
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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OTOH if you are getting validation of this point of view using info from the Heritage Foundation then it must be true.
Yep , true. by nasty article I meant http://macroadvisers.blogspot.com/20...-assuming.html CBass posted which I of course enjoyed. I like to think of myself as a fiscally conservative democrat. Which I have been told is impossible. I just think that you don't borrow against what you don't have. So the country will have to go through some belt-tightening pain, lobbyists need heavy scrutiny. Foreign Aid, Military and Space Program have to be cut. However reinvestment must occur- in education, infrastructure etc. Equally you don't give money away when you can't afford to which means stop feeding the mega-wealthy and corporations with tax breaks. I just don't believe in trickle-down economics.
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  #95  
Old 09.07.2011, 17:56
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Fiscally conservative Demotrats are more real than fiscally conservative Republicans.

I mean seriously, what idiot would cut financial inputs whilst increasing handouts and entitlements for large corporations?

And why is it that the people who say "it's just business" while they take your home, car, etc., are same ones who are so quick to throw billions at any corporation that can't control it's spending but is so bloated that it is "to big to fail?"

The sad irony is that, once again, it will be socially liberal, fiscally rational people who will save the economies. If they are to be saved at all. I say this, because it feels like some groups are trying to destroy our economy in an effort to damage the governments to the point that they can be stripped of their assets leaving us nowhere to go but to oligarchy like corporations who will only be beholden to their boards and major shareholders.
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  #96  
Old 30.07.2011, 15:49
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

Clearly, personal taxes have to rise.
The quality of life in the US has been over-subsidised, tax receipts have not matched public borrowing and now it's time to pay the bill...

US to learn a lesson from Denmark ?

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  #97  
Old 30.07.2011, 16:21
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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Clearly, personal taxes have to rise.
The quality of life in the US has been over-subsidised, tax receipts have not matched public borrowing and now it's time to pay the bill...
No no.... You forgot that under Jefferson the US was a Republic (rather than a democracy that failed in 1874 with the rigged elections that threw us back into being a Republic until 1914, atleast according to Bernard Baruch) which means, by Jeffersons definition, that US citizens should only be taxed on consumption. Part of this problem is that there has been too much consumption in the US and not enough savings.

By taxing consumption you will reward savers. Since youre taxed on earnings and savings you have no incentive to save and are more likely to add to your consumption expenditures.

This is the reason oil in the US is so cheap. There are very little in terms of consumption taxs on it. In Europe they finger-fu*k their citizens on both consumption and income taxs. Thats why Germany cant afford to bail out the rest of Europe: Nowhere to actually raise taxs anymore. Same with the UK.

The new Obamacare that passed last year will increase tax revenues into the IRS by $350Bn (as a minimum estimate) so that will help as well.

But taxing income is always the wrong way to do it. You have to tax consumption.

The other way to fix the mess is to have a 2 tier bond auction system. The no-bid auctions for buyers of US GOVT's (where your social security money gets invested) right now has to take the previous days yield. Under a two tier system social security would get the previous days yield +200bps.

Yes, that will fix the social security problem.

That can easily be funded by the Obamacare.

And that brings us back to not taxing income. You can give people a choice to either continue to pay their income taxs or they can put more funds into their social security, tax free, at the new higher yield.

The biggest issue of all of this is in order to do it you would probably have to raise taxs on oil..... And no one in Washington has the balls to take on the Oil Lobby.
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  #98  
Old 30.07.2011, 16:46
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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of course they could show everyone the finger and say bugger off... that would take care of all the existing debt... but what would they live on after that???
This would be very interesting to see..

Martial law or another revolution?

Scrape the Fed Reserve and find a different way of doing things?

Will the guys owed send in the bailiffs?

Could it trigger a global event that changes everything....?

One thing is for sure sooner or later we will find out !
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  #99  
Old 30.07.2011, 16:51
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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Clearly, personal taxes have to rise...
With due respect, I don't consider that a realistic conclusion. To get "personal taxes" to come anywhere near where they could make a dent in what Congress has done to the government's fiscal condition, you'd have to come very close to just confiscating everything, which I don't think would go well.

IMHO, the situation has tipped beyond remedy through taxes. (The popular analogy of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic comes to mind.) A painful restructuring and/or default seems ever more likely. (It wouldn't be the first time, either.)

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...The quality of life in the US has been over-subsidised, tax receipts have not matched public borrowing and now it's time to pay the bill...
It's not so much the overall "quality of life" that has been subsidized, but the government's unaccountable spending, both with domestic subsidies and overseas adventures, military and otherwise. The term "public borrowing" suggests that "the public" has had any real say in what Congress has been doing economically over the past many decades. No matter which party controlled what part of the government, the trend has been the same: more inflation, more debt, more unaccountable spending...

It's only "public" in the sense that the "public" will ultimately be saddled with responsibility for the consequences of their presumed rulers' folly. (Think Greece.)
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Old 30.07.2011, 16:54
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Re: Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt ?

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This would be very interesting to see..


Will the guys owed send in the bailiffs?


One thing is for sure sooner or later we will find out !
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