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Old 29.06.2011, 13:39
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Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

"The survival of the common European Union currency, free movement across national borders and trans-Atlantic collective security are all in serious doubt. Europe’s leaders are in denial or paralyzed.

How could any European leader let these pillars of the Continent’s well-being be jeopardized? The problem is there are no European leaders, just a German chancellor, a French president, an Italian prime minister and others who profess a continental vision but never look much beyond their local political interests."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/op...29wed1.html?hp
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Old 29.06.2011, 13:44
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

Aww... we'll muddle through. We always do.

It's not terribly well written, though, is it?

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The opening of most European internal borders over the past two decades has been an economic boon. But almost every country has also seen an alarming rise of anti-immigrant political parties. Economic crisis and the arrival of tens of thousands of Tunisian and Libyan refugees have pushed this xenophobia to new levels. France, Italy and Denmark have sought to selectively opt out of the historic Schengen agreement, with its passport-free borders. The refugee problem is also too big for any one country to handle. It, too, requires real European leadership.
Here they are somehow linking an uncontrollable influx of refugees with opening the borders for the benefit of the economy.

The open borders to workers functions fairly well but the refugee issue has to be controlled somehow, doesn't it?
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Old 29.06.2011, 13:49
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

There are some who would gladly see at least 2 of these issues fall gladly by the wayside .

FYI, europe is a geographic, not political, entity. In my opinion anyway. Therefore none of them are "pillars of the continent's well-being".
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Old 29.06.2011, 13:49
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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"The survival of the common European Union currency, free movement across national borders and trans-Atlantic collective security are all in serious doubt. Europe’s leaders are in denial or paralyzed.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/op...29wed1.html?hp
The EU is a project, projects succeed sometimes, & fail other times. But this isn't important at all. What's important in my opinion is to give the peoples of Europe their right through referendums to see who wants in & who wishes to remain sovereign & independent; the Swiss did this.
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Old 29.06.2011, 13:50
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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"The survival of the common European Union currency, free movement across national borders and trans-Atlantic collective security are all in serious doubt. Europe’s leaders are in denial or paralyzed.

How could any European leader let these pillars of the Continent’s well-being be jeopardized? The problem is there are no European leaders, just a German chancellor, a French president, an Italian prime minister and others who profess a continental vision but never look much beyond their local political interests."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/op...29wed1.html?hp
So we're a bit like the USA then? No leadership. At least we're honest about it and don't have a pretend leader with a pretend birth certificate
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Old 29.06.2011, 13:50
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

From the third paragraph "Europe’s unraveling is also a problem for Americans. A fracturing of the euro could drag down the global economy."


Some nerve they have...
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Old 29.06.2011, 13:52
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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"The survival of the common European Union currency, free movement across national borders and trans-Atlantic collective security are all in serious doubt. Europe’s leaders are in denial or paralyzed.

How could any European leader let these pillars of the Continent’s well-being be jeopardized? The problem is there are no European leaders, just a German chancellor, a French president, an Italian prime minister and others who profess a continental vision but never look much beyond their local political interests."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/29/op...29wed1.html?hp
It is true, Europe is still struggling from the 2007 crash caused largely by the American mortgage lending defaults. Lets hope we can make it through in one piece.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:01
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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It is true, Europe is still struggling from the 2007 crash caused largely by the American mortgage lending defaults. Lets hope we can make it through in one piece.
the crash just exposed europe's serious economic problems. or are you going to blame the irish property bubble, greece's spending problems, the terrible finances of portugal, italy, spain, belgium and others on the american real estate market? i don't hear brazil, russia, india, china or the rest of the world whining about it.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:15
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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i don't hear brazil, russia, india, china or the rest of the world whining about it.
thats because you dont listen.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:21
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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the crash just exposed europe's serious economic problems. or are you going to blame the irish property bubble, greece's spending problems, the terrible finances of portugal, italy, spain, belgium and others on the american real estate market?
Believe me, I blave everything on them Old Colonies. Things would never have come to this if they'd just payed their taxes and drank tea as we instructed them.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:21
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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thats because you dont listen.
if you have nothing to say dont bother posting.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:29
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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if you have nothing to say dont bother posting.
I'll post if I want to. Just because some cosy american paper chooses to sit on it's high horse looking down on europe and complaining of a lack of leadership with such breathtaking arrogance when there are so many fundamental problems in its own back yard it does tend to get the back up of "the europeans" a bit.

please dont bother posting unless its a constructive reply.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:35
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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I'll post if I want to. Just because some cosy american paper chooses to sit on it's high horse looking down on europe and complaining of a lack of leadership with such breathtaking arrogance when there are so many fundamental problems in its own back yard it does tend to get the back up of "the europeans" a bit.
I guess the Americans feel the same when a bunch of Europeans post about US politics when there are "so many fundamental problems in its own back yard".

It seems fair that people can comment on the weaknesses of both systems.


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please dont bother posting unless its a constructive reply.
Oops. Sorry. I noticed this bit too late.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:43
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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I guess the Americans feel the same when a bunch of Europeans post about US politics when there are "so many fundamental problems in its own back yard".

It seems fair that people can comment on the weaknesses of both systems.
It is fair, but it's also fair that stick in the mud Britain-still-rules-the-waves dreamland crusaders like myself will defend blighty and its sidekick, Europe, to the hilt. Hence my retort.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:47
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

How about the US sorts out its problems and the Europeans sort out their problems? Yes, it was all caused by the American Mortgage shambles. Ask anybody.
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Old 29.06.2011, 14:47
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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It is fair, but it's also fair that stick in the mud Britain-still-rules-the-waves dreamland crusaders like myself will defend blighty and its sidekick, Europe, to the hilt. Hence my retort.

I'm with you, right up until the bit where you say "and its sidekick, Europe"
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Old 29.06.2011, 15:42
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

In this article, the amount of 'shoulds' and 'coulds' is amazing. As well as all the 're-'s like in restructuring.
I don't trust articles which use these kind of words inflationary. It's just one pleading for one interest. But their are many! It's always like this, if money or power are involved.

Maybe it's not that easy to rewind and replay everything. It's rather interesting why they've introduced a new currency when it was obvious that free rider problems (or sth similar...) are very likely to occur.

Now they need to haggle. It's a lot of money! What is good for one party might not be good for the other... Who pays, how much under which conditions? And most of it is probably already figured out and the rest is tactic. We can just sit and enjoy the games- or become a politician or banker.
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Old 29.06.2011, 17:06
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

Diplomacy is difficult. Bombing them is so much easier
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Old 29.06.2011, 19:48
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

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I'll post if I want to. Just because some cosy american paper chooses to sit on it's high horse looking down on europe and complaining of a lack of leadership with such breathtaking arrogance when there are so many fundamental problems in its own back yard it does tend to get the back up of "the europeans" a bit.
Stop with these unfounded accusations! US is the biggest shareholder in the IMF which is trying to bail out Greece alongside the EU.
If history teaches us anything, it is that the US stands by ready to help out Europe when in need. Marshal plan etc

The problem now is that the US is bust alongside many EU members...so there is nothing to defend really...

Just because somebody criticises EU finances, it doesn't make them arrogant! According to you, the markets are the most arrogant on the face of this earth then?!?

Last edited by Lejoker; 29.06.2011 at 20:45.
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Old 29.06.2011, 20:02
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Re: Europeans, stop complaining so much and get your act together

Thank God we're not in the EU!

Now, if we would just ditch the Schengen nonsense, I'd REALLY be happy.

Tom
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