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View Poll Results: Should infants be banned from flying in first class on planes?
Yes - first class passengers pay for peace and quiet 17 85.00%
No - parents should be allowed to fly with their children in first class 3 15.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:02
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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They are yet to invent a pair that a baby's screaming will not penetrate!
It's called a quaalude.
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  #62  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:03
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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I think the suggestion of a "family class" or area within Economy is a fantastic idea. People make life choices to have a child - some of us didnt. Its a great way to co exist.
As planes get bigger they could do this. Section off the rear of one of the decks with a soundproofed area for families. But then to please everybody, you'd have to subdivide it into coach, business and first class.

Planes these days are often overbooked. Assuming an upgrade from Economy to anything else is a no brainer, the true test of your resolve would be your answer when check in offers an upgrade from "Normal Business" to "Family First." Are you felling lucky today Sir?
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  #63  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:08
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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Are you felling lucky today Sir?
Fat chance with Singapore Airlines. They are the stingiest bastards in the business.

I did have the A380 in mind - double decks. The kids can stay downstairs and run amok driving their own parents crazy whilst the rest of the economy class can sit upstairs. World peace!
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  #64  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:21
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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Fat chance with Singapore Airlines. They are the stingiest bastards in the business.
And yet at the front of the bus, they're the only airline to offer you a choice of Dom or Krug. Guess the babies wouldn't appreciate that though.
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  #65  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:23
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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And yet at the front of the bus, they're the only airline to offer you a choice of Dom or Krug. Guess the babies wouldn't appreciate that though.
For a first class ticket costing around 10 000 chuffs, I should be expecting Cristal!!!!! Their business class is good enough for me - but I am useless, I dont drink on planes. I simply take one large sleeping pill and zonk off.
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  #66  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:41
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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So those little noisemakers should be in their own section, right at the back of the plane. Call it the Family class, like on the CFF/SBB intercity trains.
The Family compartment in InterCity trains has extra amenities for the convenience and entertainment of families with children, but I'm not aware of a rule that bans them from any other part of the train their ticket is valid for.

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Remember, those paying for first/business class subsidize YOUR economy ticket directly.
Uhmm, I beg your pardon?

You are saying that airlines would be more profitable by not having an economy class at all. If that were the case, in all but the most socialist or price-regulated societies, airlines would just eliminate economy class.

It is a case of market segmentation with higher profit from passengers willing to pay the disproportionate premium for sitting in the front, for sure, but make no mistake, there's no subsidy: airlines do generally profit from economy tickets, or they wouldn't offer them.
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  #67  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:48
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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And yet at the front of the bus, they're the only airline to offer you a choice of Dom or Krug. Guess the babies wouldn't appreciate that though.
That's not a choice. Krug, obviously.
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  #68  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:49
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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I'd be more excited if this rule is extended to ALL classes - on ALL airlines *ducks*
Awww the poor grandparents when you have kids - they'll not get to see their little precious ones
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  #69  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:53
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

Now why on earth would someone want cute little babies banned from an airplane..?


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  #70  
Old 29.06.2011, 20:58
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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Awww the poor grandparents when you have kids - they'll not get to see their little precious ones
If Mohamed wont come to the mountain.....
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  #71  
Old 29.06.2011, 21:05
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

If you think a passenger plane is the same as an adult sex shop, you must fly with some strange airlines.

PS. can you tell me which one?

Cheers,
Nick

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Babies aren't frequently welcomed into bars, brothels, adult sex shops, cinema's etc.
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  #72  
Old 29.06.2011, 21:48
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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That's not a choice. Krug, obviously.
Yeah, you're right. But after the third bottle, who can tell the difference.
These days, when most airlines are like peas in a pod, it's the quality of the duvet and the pyjamas on offer that count. The best treat I ever got are a pair of black and white checked silk PJs that were handed out on one overnight flight I took several years ago from Seoul to Singapore. They're still going strong, though sadly, they're now discontinued. With all that lack humidity in the cabin, they chafe much less than those itchy track suits things you get on most airlines.
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  #73  
Old 30.06.2011, 09:18
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

And here is the version from the carrier itself :

http://updates.malaysiaairlines.com/infant-travel.aspx


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  #74  
Old 30.06.2011, 09:42
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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And here is the version from the carrier itself :

http://updates.malaysiaairlines.com/infant-travel.aspx
They've been doing it since 2004?

And nobody informed me?

I'm outraged
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  #75  
Old 30.06.2011, 10:10
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

I think the kid in the overhead compartment is hilarious - my midget would love it.

What about a luxury overhead in first class which is soundproofed and has HDTV for the shorties? Everyone wins
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  #76  
Old 30.06.2011, 10:33
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

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Uhmm, I beg your pardon?

You are saying that airlines would be more profitable by not having an economy class at all. If that were the case, in all but the most socialist or price-regulated societies, airlines would just eliminate economy class.

It is a case of market segmentation with higher profit from passengers willing to pay the disproportionate premium for sitting in the front, for sure, but make no mistake, there's no subsidy: airlines do generally profit from economy tickets, or they wouldn't offer them.
They may not lose money on every economy ticket, but they will certainly lose money on some of them. It's just that they'll lose less money than they would if the seat went empty. Any time the Cost per Available Seat Mile (CASM) is less than the Revenue per Available Seat Mile (RASM), the airline is making a loss on the seat.

Let's be clear -- airlines make their money in three places: premium cabins, cargo, and full-fare economy tickets (last minute/business travellers). Filling the rest of the plane is just a game of loss minimisation in most cases.

It's tough to fill a jumbo full of premium-class passengers. But if you look at the increasing number of business-class only flights (LCY-JFK on BA, or ZRH-EWR on LX, for example) you'll see that there's clearly a profitable niche for thsi sort of business.
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  #77  
Old 30.06.2011, 10:38
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

Poll added to the thread, just like the one the SMH had.
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malaysia-airlines-bans-babies-first-class-pollmasbaby1stclass.jpg  
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  #78  
Old 30.06.2011, 22:04
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Re: airline profits from coach tickets

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They may not lose money on every economy ticket, but they will certainly lose money on some of them.
Every business sometimes loses money on deals where costs exceeds or demand falls under their expectations. Sure, they lose money on some tickets and flights, but in average they make profit on coach ticket, or they'd just cut out that service.

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It's just that they'll lose less money than they would if the seat went empty.
That consideration only comes into play if they are unable to sell tickets for the regular, profitable price. And if that became the normal case, they would just stop running said flight, or run smaller less expensive aircraft on it, and fill it mostly with "premium class" seats. Nothing prevents airlines from doing that. The fact that they still have more coach seats than any other, and keep offering them, clearly indicates that they make profit on them.

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Any time the Cost per Available Seat Mile (CASM) is less than the Revenue per Available Seat Mile (RASM), the airline is making a loss on the seat.
These are measures for a flight. Yes, there is some threshold of normal tickets an airline needs to sell to cover the cost of the flight, and if it fails to sell enough of them, it will lose money on the flight, and end up selling tickets at below-cost prices just to minimize the loss. Even that's not subsidised though as the income from the ticket is the only reason for selling it. A subsidised tickets would only exist if the airline has any inherent or imposed interest in the passenger other than the money from the ticket, in which case they'd have to make extra profits elsewhere to afford the subsidy.

But airlines plan their capacity and schedules in advance to try to only run profitable flights, and will generally not schedule flights they expect to lose money on.

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Let's be clear -- airlines make their money in three places: premium cabins,
They sure make the biggest margins on them, as the price premium for those is disproportionate to the extra cost/value, but they don't offer the others as a charity either.

(It goes to the extent of perverse incentives even -- some airlines projected more people who fly coach would might actually pay for premium tickets if they make the quality of service in economy sufficiently worse, so they did screw up their coach cabins just to sell more premium tickets)

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cargo,
Yes, on separate cargo flights. Very little cargo goes on most scheduled passenger flights.

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and full-fare economy tickets (last minute/business travellers).
Most economy tickets are full-fare. The full fare for a seat in a particular flight can vary based on many factors, such as where else the passenger is flying, when it was purchased, or even what other tickets the customer happened to look for online recently (it's always worth clearing your web browser cookies while booking flights online -- you might be charged less). But tickets actually sold for discounted fare are the minority. Last minute and business travelers on coach may pay more or less, depending on the availability of seats at the time of booking.

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Filling the rest of the plane is just a game of loss minimisation in most cases.
Again, if there was a loss in most cases then airlines would not run the flight.

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It's tough to fill a jumbo full of premium-class passengers.
It sure is -- there aren't as many passengers to pay the premium to fill all the big planes flying every day.

But evidently it's still profitable to run these widebody aircraft mostly full with coach passengers on these routes instead of 30-seater business jets full of premium passengers.

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But if you look at the increasing number of business-class only flights (LCY-JFK on BA, or ZRH-EWR on LX, for example) you'll see that there's clearly a profitable niche for thsi sort of business.
Sure, on some routes there's enough demand for the premium to make these extra-profitable flights viable.

And then there are many more coach-/economy-class-only flights every day, and increasingly even airlines that only offer coach -- and they aren't going bankrupt from their losses.
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  #79  
Old 02.07.2011, 23:47
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

Good move Malaysia airlines because those loudspeakers shouldnt be flying anyway. Its always everyone's worst time to be next to or just in a plane with a baby in it. I just took a flight the other day and stayed up 4 hours listening to the baby cry ...but of course if a parent needs to get somewhere quickly and conveniently then what can we passengers say...I feel like a fool denying them access
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  #80  
Old 03.07.2011, 01:18
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Re: Malaysia Airlines bans babies in first-class

Nope, babies should not be allowed in 1st class. If I had paid however many thousand for a ticket, and then had a screaming child stuck behind me for 20 odd hours, I would be furious.
People go on about that it's being discrimination, so if you want to treat babies with the same rights as others, then what do you think would happen if an adult was suddenly to start screaming, and kicking the seat in front of him etc etc? He would be taken out of first class. Soon people will be saying that the ticket price is discrimination for people who are poor. Ridiculous!!!

I also find over in Switzerland as well, that a lot of parents on trains let their kids roam free up and down the isles.......what is with that? Sorry, but you take colouring, snacks, books etc to keep them entertained, not let them run up and down irritating everyone else. I can only imagine if you get a parent who is tired on a flight, and their child isn't the child would have free roaming of the aircraft.
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