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Old 06.07.2011, 18:42
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Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

I saw this aired on BBC earlier today and posted this link to my Facebook. I thought it might also make for some interesting conversation here.

The video, I warn you, is extremely graphic, depicting animal abuse, cruelty and suffering as part of an irregular slaughter process. It was enough to make me a vegetarian for at least a week.

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Old 06.07.2011, 19:50
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

I lasted till the 1:31 mark.

Do I still qualify for the discussion?
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Old 06.07.2011, 20:40
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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I lasted till the 1:31 mark.

Do I still qualify for the discussion?
Jump ahead to about 7.50 mark... animal cruelty stems from religion - apparently
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Old 07.07.2011, 09:42
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

I watched the clip from start to finish. This needs to be addressed at a national and international level. One (of many) aspects I found particularly disturbing, was the sadism of some of the workers - killing of the animal was secondary to them, making it suffer was paramount. For the moment, that's all I can say, but those images will stay with me for a long time to come. I'll be back later to see if there are any other comments.

Can anyone tell me how I can copy the video clip please?
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Old 07.07.2011, 10:01
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

Well its been banned.

Which brings another aspect to the discussion. Friends of ours have just lost their livelihoods after the Australian government banned live exports to Indonesia. Im all for humane treatment of animals, but I know for a fact that some Indonesian abbatoirs were completely fine. There's got to be some balance because the black/white decision is pretty ridiculous.
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Old 07.07.2011, 14:33
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

When did the Australian government ban live imports to Indonesia?
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Old 07.07.2011, 14:45
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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I saw this aired on BBC earlier today and posted this link to my Facebook. I thought it might also make for some interesting conversation here.

The video, I warn you, is extremely graphic, depicting animal abuse, cruelty and suffering as part of an irregular slaughter process. It was enough to make me a vegetarian for at least a week.

I find slaughtering an animal with an electric saw rather clumsy, but what makes you think shooting them in the brain is more humane than cutting the throat?

I understand if you prefer to go vegetarian to avoid contributing killing of animals, but there is little difference between the method as long as you kill them and eat them afterwards.

Besides, the torture they go through during their short lives under modern cattle industry (living in cages like chicken, never seeing any pasture or grass, not breeding etc etc) is much worse than what happens in the final moments, which lasts for a few second...

Finally, such videos are good, we should know meat doesnt come from supermarket, and there is life and blood of animals involved in it.
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Old 07.07.2011, 14:46
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

My 5 raps:

To be honest, I don't agree with the "how badly Australian animals are being treated..." emotional attempts. These animals do not have Australian Citizenship.

That said, their treatment is stomach churning, but not because they are "Australian".

I've a hunch that this thread is going to boil down to a "Islam is barbaric" vs. "they have their traditions, who are we to judge?" slanging match.
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Old 07.07.2011, 14:57
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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I find slaughtering an animal with an electric saw rather clumsy, but what makes you think shooting them in the brain is more humane than cutting the throat?

I understand if you prefer to go vegetarian to avoid contributing killing of animals, but there is little difference between the method as long as you kill them and eat them afterwards.

Besides, the torture they go through during their short lives under modern cattle industry (living in cages like chicken, never seeing any pasture or grass, not breeding etc etc) is much worse than what happens in the final moments, which lasts for a few second...

Finally, such videos are good, we should know meat doesnt come from supermarket, and there is life and blood of animals involved in it.
I assume from your comments F16 that you did not watch the entire video clip. How can you justify whipping an animal before you kill it, or beating it because it cannot get up because you have broken one of its legs, so just to give it an extra "incentive" you gouge out its eyes and then fill its nostrils with water!
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Old 07.07.2011, 14:59
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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I assume from your comments F16 that you did not watch the entire video clip. How can you justify whipping an animal before you kill it, or beating it because it cannot get up because you have broken one of its legs, so just to give it an extra "incentive" you gouge out its eyes and then fill its nostrils with water!

ok, i admit i watched only the first minute or so...
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:01
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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I find slaughtering an animal with an electric saw rather clumsy, but what makes you think shooting them in the brain is more humane than cutting the throat?

really? its not even a shot to the head. it is a metal blunt pin that comes out and basically destroys the brain and therefor no more pain. I find that much more humane than the cow in the video running around after the throat had been cut. Also it doesnt involve tiring the animal before they can slid it.

Im not a vegetarian but when I see these things I want to give some more money to stop these things. I honest to god can say I HATE people like this, livelyhood or not, there is a way of doing things.....
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:02
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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I've a hunch that this thread is going to boil down to a "Islam is barbaric" vs. "they have their traditions, and most of us consume meat without second thought to where it came from and are just feigning outrage because we are faced with it for one of the first times in our lives, so who are we to judge?" slanging match.
Fixed.

This is an extreme case and obviously I find stuff like this deplorable, but let's be real here: as long as we consume meat, we shouldn't have any illusions about where a large majority of it comes from and how the animals are treated. Can I possibly claim moral highground because I buy eggs from free-range chickens? Please.

But like most guilty pleasures, we ignore it and rationalize away the reality behind it.
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:05
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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Fixed.

This is an extreme case and obviously I find stuff like this deplorable, but let's be real here: as long as we consume meat, we shouldn't have any illusions about where a large majority of it comes from and how the animals are treated. Can I possibly claim moral highground because I buy eggs from free-range chickens? Please.

But like most guilty pleasures, we ignore it and rationalize away the reality behind it.
I disagree,

look at chipotle for example, (if you dont look it up) they use mostly free range animals for all there products and yet they are doing fantastic. yes it might cost a bit more and yes I am willing to pay more than say MacDonalds where it does not come from free range.....
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:05
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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really? its not even a shot to the head. it is a metal blunt pin that comes out and basically destroys the brain and therefor no more pain. I find that much more humane than the cow in the video running around after the throat had been cut. Also it doesnt involve tiring the animal before they can slid it.

Im not a vegetarian but when I see these things I want to give some more money to stop these things. I honest to god can say I HATE people like this, livelyhood or not, there is a way of doing things.....

curious, what makes you think a shot (ok, a "blunt" pin) to the brain is painless?

i sort of grow up in a farm, and when done properly, cutting the throat and bleeding the animal to the death is a pretty calm and peaceful act...like it or not, you gotta kill the animal you want to eat
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:09
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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When did the Australian government ban live imports to Indonesia?
Only a few months ago after a TV show aired a similar segment. There was public outcry and the government banned it.

This article is a similar situation to what my mates are facing:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...ypH_story.html
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:10
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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curious, what makes you think a shot (ok, a "blunt" pin) to the brain is painless?

i sort of grow up in a farm, and when done properly, cutting the throat and bleeding the animal to the death is a pretty calm and peaceful act...like it or not, you gotta kill the animal you want to eat

I agree with you there, but in order to argue this you need to watch the video, in this case it is not peacefull at all. I worked at several farms also and killing a few animals a day is fine that way.....no stress for the animal, but if you are a factory killing hundreds a day a shot to the head kills the brain apparently and then they slit the troat (im not a doctor)
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:11
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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Fixed.

This is an extreme case and obviously I find stuff like this deplorable, but let's be real here: as long as we consume meat, we shouldn't have any illusions about where a large majority of it comes from and how the animals are treated. Can I possibly claim moral highground because I buy eggs from free-range chickens? Please.

But like most guilty pleasures, we ignore it and rationalize away the reality behind it.
I'm not sure I agree - most of the meat we (speaking for my family) eat comes from Europe, which has animal cruelty (prevention) measures in place. So livestock is managed in "humane" conditions before and during slaughter.

Nowadays you can track the source of meat and if you are interested can check to see the country of origin's track record. If you don't like it, you can simply refuse to buy meat from that source.

Similarly, you can buy Bio products, which has an emphasis on animal care over industrialisation.

It isn't perfect, and some things will always slip through, but at least is an improvement of sorts.
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:13
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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I disagree,

look at chipotle for example, (if you dont look it up) they use mostly free range animals for all there products and yet they are doing fantastic. yes it might cost a bit more and yes I am willing to pay more than say MacDonalds where it does not come from free range.....
What percentage of meat consumers in the world make the effort to be aware of this you reckon? I try, to be honest, but every time you're in a restaurant, for example, do you ask them if their meat is free-range? My point is that most people don't care.

That said, I no way support how these animals are treated in Indonesia and am happy the Australian government stopped exports for these reasons. I just come to terms with the reality that by consuming meat, most of the time I have no way of knowing if the animals are really treated that much better and don't care to find out.
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:16
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

Its not all like that though. There are Australian run and owned abbatoir's in Indonesia. One company (Elders) run their abbatoirs there under exactly the same practises than the tight controls they have in Australia. A planket ban doesn't really make too much sense imo

Edit: I think QLD has actually appealed and the Aust. gov is not completely banning exports to Indonesia now...
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Old 07.07.2011, 15:17
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Re: Australian Cattle exports and Indonesian Animal Cruelty

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What percentage of meat consumers in the world make the effort to be aware of this you reckon? I try, to be honest, but every time you're in a restaurant, for example, do you ask them if their meat is free-range? My point is that most people don't care.

That said, I no way support how these animals are treated in Indonesia and am happy the Australian government stopped exports for these reasons. I just come to terms with the reality that by consuming meat, most of the time I have no way of knowing if the animals are really treated that much better and don't care to find out.

Hey rome wasnt build in a day but it is clear more and more restaurants are following these guidelines. And if I stand in front of a restaurant saying their meat comes from indonesia and the one next door says it comes from a humane country I will go to the humane one without a doubt
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