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Old 09.07.2011, 16:59
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South Sudan - world's newest nation

Today is the first day of South Sudan as an independant nation.

Congratulations to the people in the land of Cush - live long and prosper !
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Old 09.07.2011, 17:58
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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Today is the first day of South Sudan as an independant nation.

Congratulations to the people in the land of Cush - live long and prosper !
whats happy about dividing a country into two and setting them in perpetual warfare to extract their resources (read: oil)?
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Old 09.07.2011, 18:55
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

Dont know if we should be merry yet, have you seen el presedente much grande with his idiotic hat? It tells you all you need to know about africas newest "democracy"
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Old 09.07.2011, 22:06
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

Sudan's borders are colonial (like many countries in the middle east and africa) - no such thing as the "Sudanese nation" (see the Darfurians).

The new country is facing many problems - the president's hat is not one of them.
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Old 10.07.2011, 01:16
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

Why couldn't they all be just multi-cultural and accepting of each others differences, live in harmony, "diversity = strength" and all that??? It seems that in the West, the only time non-diversity is good, is when non-Western people do it, then you should celebrate the segregation of their cultural from everyone else. lol

If Belgium split, they would be berated as crazy and irrational, nationalistic...etc...although they were also founded artificially to be a buffer state between two rival powers. Many similar things were said about former-Yugoslavia.

It just seems hypocritical...or bigoted (as in their are lower standards for some, compared to others), in reality, most European nations are over 80% one ethnicity due to consolidation through coercion and force of arms in historic times, or they were ethnically cleansed, like Germans from Eastern Europe after WWII, nations with 6 ethnic groups in Europe don't seem to be able to get along, let alone the diversity in Sudan.

That being said, Sudan is still more diverse ethnically than the vast majority of European nations, and unlike those nations they can't legally force ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide on their inhabitants, because it is no longer in vogue to do so in the West, so they will be condemned.

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Old 10.07.2011, 10:41
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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Sudan's borders are colonial (like many countries in the middle east and africa) - no such thing as the "Sudanese nation" (see the Darfurians).

The new country is facing many problems - the president's hat is not one of them.
True, the hat is not the problem. The problem is that the guy is from the dinka tribe, remember back to the tribal wars in the 1990ies? A few hundred thousand dinkas were made into slaves. Payback time is a bitch. In thier version of democracy the dinkas are now the alpha tribe and the others are the loosers,they wont like that one bit. However one ray of hope is that the oil revinues are used to better the country and for the good of all.
You believe that will happen?
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Old 10.07.2011, 12:57
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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whats happy about dividing a country into two and setting them in perpetual warfare to extract their resources (read: oil)?
A) There were years of warfare when the South still was part of Sudan
B) The South-Sudanese wanted to get out of Sudan and now ARE out
C) North- and South-Sudan only were made one country as the Brits wanted to have a "land-bridge" between the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan and Uganda/Kenya
D) "Happy" is that two lands which do NOT belong together get separated

And while there of course are lots of problems ahead, you should NOT simply jump for the negative aspects
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Old 10.07.2011, 13:02
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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Why couldn't they all be just multi-cultural and accepting of each others differences, live in harmony, "diversity = strength" and all that??? It seems that in the West, the only time non-diversity is good, is when non-Western people do it, then you should celebrate the segregation of their cultural from everyone else. lol

If Belgium split, they would be berated as crazy and irrational, nationalistic...etc...although they were also founded artificially to be a buffer state between two rival powers. Many similar things were said about former-Yugoslavia.

It just seems hypocritical...or bigoted (as in their are lower standards for some, compared to others), in reality, most European nations are over 80% one ethnicity due to consolidation through coercion and force of arms in historic times, or they were ethnically cleansed, like Germans from Eastern Europe after WWII, nations with 6 ethnic groups in Europe don't seem to be able to get along, let alone the diversity in Sudan.

That being said, Sudan is still more diverse ethnically than the vast majority of European nations, and unlike those nations they can't legally force ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide on their inhabitants, because it is no longer in vogue to do so in the West, so they will be condemned.
The various parts of Belgium are in Western Europe, South-Sudan is an African country, rather oriented towards Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia, while North-Sudan is (culturally and politically and economically) an Arab country, oriented towards the other countries of the Arab World.
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Old 10.07.2011, 17:05
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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The various parts of Belgium are in Western Europe, South-Sudan is an African country, rather oriented towards Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia, while North-Sudan is (culturally and politically and economically) an Arab country, oriented towards the other countries of the Arab World.


I know the geographical location. So what? Tell me something I don't know.

What does a Dinka in Southern Sudan have in common culturally with someone as far away as Kenya? What about an Ethiopian?

Definitely not language, as most Kenyans speak Swahili, most Ethiopians a Semitic or Cushitic language.

Most Ethiopians are Orthodox Christians, with a large number of Sunni Muslims.

What do they have in common with Protestant Nilotic speaking people in Southern Sudan more than they have with Arabs to the North of them?

As far as I can see, NOTHING. Well all blacks may look a like to you, but they definitely don't think or act a like.

By this definition I guess most of Russian should be broken apart, the Med countries should never have been allowed in an EU with the more heavily Germanic influenced nations, and Eastern Slavs should never be allowed in...their "orientations" are different.

Rwandansshared the same religious faith, and language...and?

Yugoslavs at least all spoke Serbo-Croatian, did not share the same faith (but all Christians), etc. They were all Slavs, with different faiths, similar (although not the same languages), and different cultural orientations based on who was under Habsburg or Turkish rule, but...

"Western Europe" didn't seem to stop Franaphones and Germaniphones, Slavs, Catholics, and Protestants from murdering each other for centuries.

Your comparisons are not very good.

Isn't the answer for the "Arabs" in Sudan to be more "multi-cultural" and accept that racism is wrong, "diversity is strength" and that they are evil to think otherwise?

Last edited by AmericanGotWorkVisa; 10.07.2011 at 17:18.
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Old 10.07.2011, 17:21
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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I know the geographical location. So what? Tell me something I don't know.

What does a Dinka in Southern Sudan have in common culturally with someone as far away as Kenya? What about an Ethiopian?

Definitely not language, as most Kenyans speak Swahili, most Ethiopians a Semitic or Cushitic language.

Most Ethiopians are Orthodox Christians, with a large number of Sunni Muslims.

What do they have in common with Protestant Nilotic speaking people in Southern Sudan more than they have with Arabs to the North of them?

As far as I can see, NOTHING. Well all blacks may look a like to you, but they definitely don't think or act a like.

By this definition I guess most of Russian should be broken apart, the Med countries should never have been allowed in an EU with the more heavily Germanic influenced nations, and Eastern Slavs should never be allowed in...their "orientations" are different.

Rwandansshared the same religious faith, and language...and?

Yugoslavs at least all spoke Serbo-Croatian, did not share the same faith (but all Christians), etc. They were all Slavs, with different faiths, similar (although not the same languages), and different cultural orientations based on who was under Habsburg or Turkish rule, but...

"Western Europe" didn't seem to stop Franaphones and Germaniphones, Slavs, Catholics, and Protestants from murdering each other for centuries.

Your comparisons are not very good.

Isn't the answer for the "Arabs" in Sudan to be more "multi-cultural" and accept that racism is wrong, "diversity is strength" and that they are evil to think otherwise?
yes.

see, for major powers that depend on cheap resources from africa, middle east and central asia, they prefer small fragmented countries instead of big ones, because they are easier to manage. Look at Iraq, the most powerful country in the ME upon a day, now being divided into 3 parts, same applied to sudan, they want the same for turkey and iran as well.

divide and conquer, thats the name of the game
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Old 10.07.2011, 20:37
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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yes.

see, for major powers that depend on cheap resources from africa, middle east and central asia, they prefer small fragmented countries instead of big ones, because they are easier to manage. Look at Iraq, the most powerful country in the ME upon a day, now being divided into 3 parts, same applied to sudan, they want the same for turkey and iran as well.

divide and conquer, thats the name of the game
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Old 11.07.2011, 09:55
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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I know the geographical location. So what? Tell me something I don't know.

What does a Dinka in Southern Sudan have in common culturally with someone as far away as Kenya? What about an Ethiopian?

Definitely not language, as most Kenyans speak Swahili, most Ethiopians a Semitic or Cushitic language.

Most Ethiopians are Orthodox Christians, with a large number of Sunni Muslims.

What do they have in common with Protestant Nilotic speaking people in Southern Sudan more than they have with Arabs to the North of them?

As far as I can see, NOTHING. Well all blacks may look a like to you, but they definitely don't think or act a like.

By this definition I guess most of Russian should be broken apart, the Med countries should never have been allowed in an EU with the more heavily Germanic influenced nations, and Eastern Slavs should never be allowed in...their "orientations" are different.

Rwandansshared the same religious faith, and language...and?

Yugoslavs at least all spoke Serbo-Croatian, did not share the same faith (but all Christians), etc. They were all Slavs, with different faiths, similar (although not the same languages), and different cultural orientations based on who was under Habsburg or Turkish rule, but...

"Western Europe" didn't seem to stop Franaphones and Germaniphones, Slavs, Catholics, and Protestants from murdering each other for centuries.

Your comparisons are not very good.

Isn't the answer for the "Arabs" in Sudan to be more "multi-cultural" and accept that racism is wrong, "diversity is strength" and that they are evil to think otherwise?
> I have no doubt that you know geography. Amazing however is that people very often are not very much aware of facts they DO know
> Ethiopians do NOT speak semitic languages but HAMITIC languages plus some other regional languages
> The Southern Sudanese for ages rejected Arab culture. True, the North Sudanese ethnically are NOT Arab at all but blacks, but CULTURALLY and linguistically have joined on the Arab side. Becoming a kind of "black skinned Whites"
> Africans ? Yes, to find common denominators for "Africans" is a very difficult thing indeed. But still, the South Sudanese have looked towards Uganda and Kenya (Protestantism fairly dominant there) rather than to Egypt or Libya.
> Yugoslavs ? While Serbians, Croatians, Montenegrins and Bosnians spoke Serbo-Croations, the Slovenes did not, the Kosovari speak Albanian and the Macedonians speak a Bulgarian dialect. The Serbians are Orthodox and use the Bulgarian script while the Croatians are Roman-Catholic and use Western script
> Med countries ? Who exactly was allied with Nazi Germany overthere ?
> Rwanda ? Same religion but different tribes. What about all the hundreds of military conflicts in European history ?
> Russia ? Yes, the country in future may experience some further break-aways (Caucasus-region, Tatarstan)
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Old 11.07.2011, 10:00
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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yes.

see, for major powers that depend on cheap resources from africa, middle east and central asia, they prefer small fragmented countries instead of big ones, because they are easier to manage. Look at Iraq, the most powerful country in the ME upon a day, now being divided into 3 parts, same applied to sudan, they want the same for turkey and iran as well.

divide and conquer, thats the name of the game
Iraq ?
> not divided into three parts, but Kurdistan gradually breaking away
> never the most powerful country in the ME with Iran and Egypt having been far more powerful always.
Iran ?
> Belutchistan may break away earlier or later, but Arabistan and the crucial moment clearly opted for Iran. Irani Azerbaijan plays a dominant role in Iran, with dominating the general staff, and having the Supreme Leader one of them
Turkey ?
> Turkish Kurdistan may in the end indeed break away. Making the MustafaKemal-vonDerGoltz line redundant.
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Old 11.07.2011, 10:33
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

For me the case is faily simple re South Sudan:
-There is and has been a lot of hostility between the North and South
-There is no raison d'être for Sudan as a united country other than historic reasons(colonial times)
-There is no will to coexist between the two major cultures and religions
-The people WANT their own country and now they got it.

I can't say I'm overly optimistic regarding the future of South Sudan but it was the will of the people to segregate and so be it! By the way, I'd also welcome Belgium to do the same. I have no problem with redefining, merging, splitting national borders even within Europe as long as it's explicitly voted for by the people. The end of the Nation state is but a dream of Eurocrats, countries and nationality are and remain important.
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Old 11.07.2011, 10:45
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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For me the case is faily simple re South Sudan:
-There is and has been a lot of hostility between the North and South
-There is no raison d'être for Sudan as a united country other than historic reasons(colonial times)
-There is no will to coexist between the two major cultures and religions
-The people WANT their own country and now they got it.

I can't say I'm overly optimistic regarding the future of South Sudan but it was the will of the people to segregate and so be it! By the way, I'd also welcome Belgium to do the same. I have no problem with redefining, merging, splitting national borders even within Europe as long as it's explicitly voted for by the people. The end of the Nation state is but a dream of Eurocrats, countries and nationality are and remain important.
I agree, I suspect they better get their act together and get an army formed and some borders built or they will have the shortest story ever.
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Old 11.07.2011, 17:12
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Re: South Sudan - world's newest nation

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I agree, I suspect they better get their act together and get an army formed and some borders built or they will have the shortest story ever.
They already HAVE an army, and for sure will establish border-posts very swiftly
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