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Old 14.07.2011, 14:49
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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You'll have to fill us in on the details of how the decison of an Austrian court can prove such a thing.

Here we have the great philosophers and thinkers from all over the world debating the topic for at least 4000 years and coming up with various theories and explanations and counter-theories and counter-explanations and then a bunch of lawyers proves it just like that. Must be the most significant news item of the last four millenia.
I said religion is a waste of time, not that god either exists or doesn't exist, we can all agree that the jury is still out on that one. The sort of ridiculous sh1t that the Jews the Muslims the Christians and all other variants on the same theme get up to to please their respective gods is the crazy thing, if there actually is a supreme being (or beings) do you think he is really going to care if insignificant little you eats fish on a Friday, or washes your feet or refuses to eat pork or any of the other insignificant rituals?
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  #82  
Old 14.07.2011, 14:50
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Good point -- but I guess I just assumed that, since Boren was (supposedly) from Kazakhstan, he is a Muslim, since Islam is the dominant religion there. Who knows. But now that I think about it, I guess you're right that he also poked fun at Jews. (Not that either is necessary "right").
Could be, but I see nothing in the way either the character himself of Kazahkstan is portrayed that suggests Muslim identity (the supposed footage of Khazakstan was actually shot in Romania by the way). Furthermore, Borat isn't really a Muslim name AFAIK but has, if annything, a generic Soviet sound to it. So in the movie, Kazahkstan is just a placeholder for a generic foreign country as far as I can see.
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Old 14.07.2011, 14:59
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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... if there actually is a supreme being (or beings) do you think he is really going to care if insignificant little you eats fish on a Friday, or washes your feet or refuses to eat pork or any of the other insignificant rituals?
Yeah, I always envisioned that (if god did exist), it gave up on us long ago and instead bides its time laughing at all the silly ways we worship it. So maybe it's sitting back in a lazy boy chair somewhere, with a beer in its hand, watching us like a sitcom...
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  #84  
Old 14.07.2011, 16:09
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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But now that I think about it, I guess you're right that he also poked fun at Jews. (Not that either is necessary "right").
But was he really poking fun at the Jews, or was he caricaturing people who do?



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Old 15.07.2011, 12:22
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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He's that kid in the back of the class, acting up, begging to get thrown out, terrified of being asked why he's doing what he's doing. Atheism is about an absence of theism. You can't "be" an Atheist. The guy's a c0ck
I also agree that it's supposed to be an absence of belief and being really into it is kind of weird. But does that strip them of any right to make a statement about equality in the face of the law, as this guy is doing (albeit in a slightly snarky way)?

Atheism is accepted in Western society now, but there seems to be an attitude of "OK, you don't believe, but shut up about it". That doesn't work for me. We see Bible verses on huge advertisements and don't bat an eye, but a bus campaign with atheist notions was fair game to ban. A guy wearing a hat for "legitimate" religions is OK (the criteria for legitimacy in this thread seems to be having held a system of belief and suffered for long enough), but a pastafarist does it, and lo and behold, the usual suspects from our resident Religion Defense Force are not impressed.

There are different levels of tolerance for how noisy different systems of belief are allowed to be before they become "militant" and atheists seem to be considered as such when their volume level is above "0".
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Old 15.07.2011, 13:02
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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The arguments here actually remind me a bit of how I felt about Sacha Cohen's "Boren" character. At first I thought it was hilarious (and to some extent still do), but then when I really thought about it, I realized that Sacha is a Jew making fun of Muslims via his Boren character. Somehow it lost a bit of its humor once I realized that...
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I can't remember him ever making fun of Muslims using that character, but he does have a go at the Jews quite a bit, or more at what he imagines Jews to be.
Neither. Sacha Baron Cohen is in real life (by all accounts) a fairly orthodox jew and is simply attacking anti-sematism.
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Old 15.07.2011, 14:07
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Neither. Sacha Baron Cohen is in real life (by all accounts) a fairly orthodox jew and is simply attacking anti-sematism.
I love his smile towards the end when he's singing at the bar, like a mix between "I can't believe they're actually going along with this, terrifying" and "This bit worked out better than I could hope, I got them good!"
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Old 15.07.2011, 17:13
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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I also agree that it's supposed to be an absence of belief and being really into it is kind of weird. But does that strip them of any right to make a statement about equality in the face of the law, as this guy is doing (albeit in a slightly snarky way)?
What you should not forget is that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) was "created" as a reaction to a Kansas School Board's decision that Intelligent Design (ID) should be thought in BIOLOGY CLASSES, with the argument that ID is a SCIENTIFIC theory and thus a direct SCIENTIFIC alternative to the theory of evolution.

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<H2>Open Letter To Kansas School Board
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I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
It is for this reason that Iím writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. Iím sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.
Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence.
What these people donít understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
Iím sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we donít.
You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.

In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (Pastafarianism), and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.
Sincerely Yours,
Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.
P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.


</H2>
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  #89  
Old 15.07.2011, 19:41
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

Slammer is member of the first or maybe it is the second reformed church of the pastafarians, allhail his noodly bits. Dont forget september nointeenth talk like a poiraaaat day.
By the way y' all know the poiraaats favorate kanton?

Aaaargau;-)
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Old 17.07.2011, 10:16
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Could be, but I see nothing in the way either the character himself of Kazahkstan is portrayed that suggests Muslim identity (the supposed footage of Khazakstan was actually shot in Romania by the way). Furthermore, Borat isn't really a Muslim name AFAIK but has, if annything, a generic Soviet sound to it. So in the movie, Kazahkstan is just a placeholder for a generic foreign country as far as I can see.
Many family names in Central Asia got "Russified" under Russian rule, but when you work on the names you get it. Take Karimov, forget the "ov" and you get KARIM (kareem). Take Naserbayev and you get NASR BEY
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Old 17.07.2011, 10:19
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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I also agree that it's supposed to be an absence of belief and being really into it is kind of weird. But does that strip them of any right to make a statement about equality in the face of the law, as this guy is doing (albeit in a slightly snarky way)?

Atheism is accepted in Western society now, but there seems to be an attitude of "OK, you don't believe, but shut up about it". That doesn't work for me. We see Bible verses on huge advertisements and don't bat an eye, but a bus campaign with atheist notions was fair game to ban. A guy wearing a hat for "legitimate" religions is OK (the criteria for legitimacy in this thread seems to be having held a system of belief and suffered for long enough), but a pastafarist does it, and lo and behold, the usual suspects from our resident Religion Defense Force are not impressed.

There are different levels of tolerance for how noisy different systems of belief are allowed to be before they become "militant" and atheists seem to be considered as such when their volume level is above "0".
Atheism is also a BELIEF (religion), as atheists believe that there is no God but cannot proof their faith any better than others theirs.


While of course to have an assembly of Gods



makes far nicer pictures !



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Old 18.07.2011, 00:00
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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While of course to have an assembly of Gods



makes far nicer pictures !
Most definitely. Just be careful about which ones you draw:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy
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  #93  
Old 18.07.2011, 10:19
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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I also agree that it's supposed to be an absence of belief and being really into it is kind of weird. But does that strip them of any right to make a statement about equality in the face of the law, as this guy is doing (albeit in a slightly snarky way)?

Atheism is accepted in Western society now, but there seems to be an attitude of "OK, you don't believe, but shut up about it". That doesn't work for me. We see Bible verses on huge advertisements and don't bat an eye, but a bus campaign with atheist notions was fair game to ban. A guy wearing a hat for "legitimate" religions is OK (the criteria for legitimacy in this thread seems to be having held a system of belief and suffered for long enough), but a pastafarist does it, and lo and behold, the usual suspects from our resident Religion Defense Force are not impressed.

There are different levels of tolerance for how noisy different systems of belief are allowed to be before they become "militant" and atheists seem to be considered as such when their volume level is above "0".
Firstly, I definitely tolerate "Atheists" shouting about atheism. It irritates the hell out of me, but even I irritate the hell out of me occasionally so I won't hold that against them. It's just disappointing.

I don't know why - certainly there doesn't need to be a connection between God and religion, but all these Atheists who profess to be so strong of function and independent of mind are busy creating the Religion of No God replete with special books, special symbols, special leaders. For me, atheism is about filling the time and mental space usually devoted to God and religion with travel and tennis and hopscotch. It isn't about writing books to convince people that there is no God. The very idea is absurd. Whole books, loads of them, written by surprisingly few people (one readily springs to mind - The Leader) chattering endlessly about "well...there's no proof but it's incredibly unlikely". Thing is - atheists will arise naturally. They'll throw off religion and get on with the rest of life. But artificial atheists - atheists "convinced" by some book or other will view it as yet another religion. A religion that, instead of rewarding them with an infinite paradisical afterlife, will reward them with a big bag of Smug to take to the pub after work. "You know mate, you believe in one god, the guy in the curry house believes in 3 gods, I believe in no god and none of us believes in Zeus - we're all Atheists for Zeus and most of the gods out there" "Wow, that's really clever. I'd love to be able to impress others and show that I'm a free thinker. I think I'll join your club. Are there any recommended books I should pick up?"

And so it is. Legion Atheists, still slave to their human impulse to belong to something, anything as long as it makes them feel good. Almost none of them have moved beyond anything, almost none of them think independently or know really what they believe at all. One day, Team Atheist will engage in a Holy/Not Holy War with Team God.

Anyway, I just wish most atheists were as I'd like them to be, people who just got on with living life, having surpassed religion and believe and faith and god.
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Old 18.07.2011, 10:36
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

The current wave of atheism definitely has an air of smug about it that doesn't do it any favours. But like I said, it has only been accepted for a very very short period of time, so you'll get growing pains and loudmouths. It's part of the process. A guy at a bar will repeat clever stuff he read, just as someone who recently came out of the closet will develop an exaggerated lisp and be flamboyant for a while. The wave of smug self-satisfaction from atheists you're seeing is the equivalent of pride parades for the Gay Rights movement or the Black Panthers for Civil Rights movement. People are finally able to speak about and openly be something after centuries of being persecuted and shunned for it, so there's blowback and it's not always positive.

Edit: I guess I don't share your cynicism about the fact that most atheists are just looking to belong to something. I believe it's genuine in most people, even in many of the smug ones, and I understand it. If you grew up in a religious society or family, and have always had doubts about it, it can be a liberating feeling to finally reject all that publically. You can be enlightened about it and go on living your life, but it's hard to keep quiet when people start telling you that you "can't be a moral person without God" or trying to comfort you for a traumatic event in your life by saying, "It was God's will." Yes, it's definitely getting past something, but let's not pretend that that something isn't present in our social structure in a major way and unavoidable. To expect people to just ignore it and be enlightened about it without speaking their minds on the matter is a bit naive.

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Old 18.07.2011, 11:34
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Atheism is also a BELIEF (religion), as atheists believe that there is no God but cannot proof their faith any better than others theirs.
Do you call a non belief in fairies a religion too? Is it the same one as atheism?

In how many things do you have the faith to believe don't exist?
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Old 18.07.2011, 12:36
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Do you call a non belief in fairies a religion too?
No. But as per my post, atheism IS a religion now. It's a shame, but for most people religion/nationalism/supporting Arsenal is an innate need to affiliate and belong. Atheism has now joined ranks with the rest of the clubs.
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Old 18.07.2011, 12:40
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Old 18.07.2011, 12:46
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Or even the ""calling every one a bandwagoner" bandwagoner bandwagon". But sometimes we're allowed to notice that religion or affiliation is natural in most people and if "god" is taken away then they'll just create a godless religion to hold onto. Your lolcat doesn't preclude me from noticing patterns.
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Old 18.07.2011, 12:52
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Firstly, I definitely tolerate "Atheists" shouting about atheism. It irritates the hell out of me, but even I irritate the hell out of me occasionally so I won't hold that against them. It's just disappointing.

I don't know why - certainly there doesn't need to be a connection between God and religion, but all these Atheists who profess to be so strong of function and independent of mind are busy creating the Religion of No God replete with special books, special symbols, special leaders. For me, atheism is about filling the time and mental space usually devoted to God and religion with travel and tennis and hopscotch. It isn't about writing books to convince people that there is no God. The very idea is absurd. Whole books, loads of them, written by surprisingly few people (one readily springs to mind - The Leader) chattering endlessly about "well...there's no proof but it's incredibly unlikely". Thing is - atheists will arise naturally. They'll throw off religion and get on with the rest of life. But artificial atheists - atheists "convinced" by some book or other will view it as yet another religion. A religion that, instead of rewarding them with an infinite paradisical afterlife, will reward them with a big bag of Smug to take to the pub after work. "You know mate, you believe in one god, the guy in the curry house believes in 3 gods, I believe in no god and none of us believes in Zeus - we're all Atheists for Zeus and most of the gods out there" "Wow, that's really clever. I'd love to be able to impress others and show that I'm a free thinker. I think I'll join your club. Are there any recommended books I should pick up?"
Much of the new atheism is a reaction to increased efforts from fundamentalist religions. So while you may feel it's just everyone feeling smug about themselves, there is actually a genuine concern that religion, particularly of fundamental kind, is a real and growing problem.

So, yes, while atheists should just be real nice people who should kindly keep their views to themselves, you just wonder why there aren't so many people asking the same things about the fundies too.
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Old 18.07.2011, 13:02
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Re: Any Pastafarians here?

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Much of the new atheism is a reaction to increased efforts from fundamentalist religions. So while you may feel it's just everyone feeling smug about themselves, there is actually a genuine concern that religion, particularly of fundamental kind, is a real and growing problem.

So, yes, while atheists should just be real nice people who should kindly keep their views to themselves, you just wonder why there aren't so many people asking the same things about the fundies too.
Thank you for reading my post, ignoring it, and posting what you wanted to post anyway. Firstly "much of the new atheism is a reaction to increased efforts from fundamentalist religions". I don't see any evidence of this. It would fit your MO if it were true, but it seems to me to be a facet of modernity and the low-attention span internet age. A clever quip is easier to grip on to than the Quran or Bible. Also, I didn't say atheists should keep their views to themselves. Tell who you like, seriously. It's just that there's a fine line between chatting away and proselytising about this new thing that you've discovered that you know and that they don't, about this amazing Truth and you just have to read this Book and listen to this Guy Speak. And have you Heard about the Spaghetti Monster*

The other thing is that I really don't see much of a connection between atheism and religion per se. Are we "fighting" belief in a deity or in fundamentalist religion? In the latter should we include those atheist religions of Stalinism and Nazism that comply with the definition of religion in every other way (other than having a god) or are we just against clubs with deities?


*don't worry, it'll be a short time before atheists...I mean Atheists start capitalising their holy words.
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