Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 20.07.2011, 10:56
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,191
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,781 Times in 704 Posts
ceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

We kill people who kill people
To show people that killing people is wrong.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank ceppych for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 20.07.2011, 10:59
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
We kill people who kill people
To show people that killing people is wrong.

......
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
We kill people who kill people
To show people that killing people is wrong.
should we blind people that blind other people then ? You get the odd case of acid being thrown in peoples faces or them losing sight after becoming involved in a bar fight and a glass gets broken on them. In these cases, from within the justice system, should be pour acid in their eyes to deter people from doing it ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,191
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,781 Times in 704 Posts
ceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post

......
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:04
jsherk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brutten
Posts: 356
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 379 Times in 174 Posts
jsherk has a reputation beyond reputejsherk has a reputation beyond reputejsherk has a reputation beyond reputejsherk has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
This crime and crimes like it happen because the US is culturally a violent place.
Has to be the most ridiculous statement you've made on this forum. Normally your statements are rather insightful...how do you come up with such drivel? Are you claiming that somehow the death penalty propagates more violence? That serious punishment for serious crimes somehow makes us culturally violent? Are we somehow more violent that other societies due to the fact that we have guns? You come from the UK where people beat and kill others soley based on what football team they follow (with bricks, bottles, knives, flares - personally, I find this to be more violent than a gun), a place where intelligent, capable persons are moving away in droves to keep their children from such violence... do you consider it culturally violent? You also hail from S.A. where people live in compounds and have Rotties and Staffies to protect their families, a place where the police are hunted, culturally violent? Not sure about the death penalty in SA, however, it does not exist in the UK yet I hear stories in the UK news nearly everyday involving violent crime, what gives? BTW, per 100k persons, homicide rates US=6.5, Europe=5.4 not much difference. Gun crime is most certainly one of the highest in the world, however, part of that is due to access to weapons and part is due to levels of poverty that most people will never witness in person and therefore never understand the desparation that can lead one to a life of crime. Sure there are some screwed up nutters in other social classes that commit violent crime, but the majority of gun-related crime is comitted by the poorest of the poor. I propose that drugs and fiscal desperation are the leading affect of violent crime in the US, not some cultural propensity towards it in general.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jsherk for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:05
jsherk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brutten
Posts: 356
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 379 Times in 174 Posts
jsherk has a reputation beyond reputejsherk has a reputation beyond reputejsherk has a reputation beyond reputejsherk has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
should we blind people that blind other people then ? You get the odd case of acid being thrown in peoples faces or them losing sight after becoming involved in a bar fight and a glass gets broken on them. In these cases, from within the justice system, should be pour acid in their eyes to deter people from doing it ?
No, you need a proper, humane deterrant...I suggest the death penalty.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jsherk for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:06
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

Forgiveness is a choice not really a reaction. Sometimes we need to forgive to move on and what the victim did is such an act of kindness, having said that, the criminal has also to pay society for his crimes, and unfortunately the law has to protect the innocent against such heinous crimes...
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:07
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
Has to be the most ridiculous statement you've made on this forum. Normally your statements are rather insightful...how do you come up with such drivel? Are you claiming that somehow the death penalty propagates more violence? That serious punishment for serious crimes somehow makes us culturally violent? Are we somehow more violent that other societies due to the fact that we have guns? You come from the UK where people beat and kill others soley based on what football team they follow (with bricks, bottley, knives, flares - personally, I find this to be more violent than a gun), a place where intelligent, capable persons are moving away in droves to keep their children from such violence... do you consider it culturally violent? You also hail from S.A. where people live in compounds and have Rotties and Staffies to protect their families, a place where the police are hunted, culturally violent? Not sure about the death penalty in SA, however, it does not exist in the UK yet I hear stories in the UK news nearly everyday involving violent crime, what gives? BTW, per 100k persons, homicide rates US=6.5, Europe=5.4 not much difference. Gun crime is most certainly one of the highest in the world, however, part of that is due to access to weapons and part is due to levels of poverty that most people will never witness in person and therefore never understand the desparation that can lead one to a life of crime. Sure there are some screwed up nutters in other social classes that commit violent crime, but the majority of gun-related crime is comitted by the poorest of the poor. I propose that drugs and fiscal desperation are the leading affect of violent crime in the US, not some cultural propensity towards it in general.
Firstly, I apologise. I didn't mean to offend Americans. Clearly not all Americans are violent. If you're American, I'm sure you're a regular hippy. Drugs and fiscal desperation and the corporatist/capitalist paradigm and guns and the American Dream and the Almighty Dollar are all cultural and all linked.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,191
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,781 Times in 704 Posts
ceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
should we blind people that blind other people then ? You get the odd case of acid being thrown in peoples faces or them losing sight after becoming involved in a bar fight and a glass gets broken on them. In these cases, from within the justice system, should be pour acid in their eyes to deter people from doing it ?
You almost got a 'groan' here because, I thought obviously, quite the opposite is implied by that expression
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
We kill people who kill people
To show people that killing people is wrong.
No, the death penalty is the majoor punishment for people who can and will not change, like serial criminals be it killers, I wish it were applied for rapist and child molestors...it should be used to rid society of a threat...that is my humble opinion though
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

By the way, if you have read the article, you will have noticed that Mr Bhuiyan is a Muslim.

Next time somebody on this forum decides to bang on about "the Muslims" being unforgiving and vengeful and barbaric, I shall provide a link back to this thread.

It's only fair, after all.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:16
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
No, the death penalty is the majoor punishment for people who can and will not change, like serial criminals be it killers, I wish it were applied for rapist and child molestors...it should be used to rid society of a threat...that is my humble opinion though
What about motorway speeders? The "25km/h over crew"? They're just murderers waiting to happen.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:17
armandair
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

I'm completely on your side with this. It takes great effort to forgive, but it's definitely worth the time and energy and emotions involved.

I have forgiven - after a long time though - those close persons who have hurt me deeply. And I was also forgiven by others.

We speak here of small human things, definitely not murder. But yes, it's possible and everyone should try it at least once in life.


Quote:
View Post
It doesn't hurt to practise forgiveness on the contrary it is very liberating but sometimes,
yes, sometimes the hurdles are too overwhelming to overcome, I can understand that too.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:18
armandair
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

Most religion have a forgiveness written on their flag. I guess it's a key factor for a humanistic well being.

Quote:
By the way, if you have read the article, you will have noticed that Mr Bhuiyan is a Muslim.

Next time somebody on this forum decides to bang on about "the Muslims" being unforgiving and vengeful and barbaric, I shall provide a link back to this thread.

It's only fair, after all.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:19
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Some people call the act of that man running around to save his shooter naive. I personally am humbled by his actions, and shows me the strength of his faith, that has guided him through this.

There are bad apples in every religion - christianity, islam - and what have yous. You have the extremists who blow up buildings, the paedophiles who hide behind their "faith" and abuse their authority as members of the church - which is why whilst I respect people of strong faith, I am always sceptical of any religion.

Coming from a country which is very free with the death penalty especially for drug traffickers, I used to think that its a great deterrent. But same with drug traffickers, for everyone one of these nutters fried or executed, there are ten others who have guns in their homes, with the same prejudices who will probably do the same when pushed. What does executing this man really achieve but to satisfy your thirst for revenge?

We now live in a very different world to the one in which the death penalty may once have been relevant. Or even effective. Time has had a most salutary effect on how we think about criminal behaviour, of punishment, rehabilitation and retribution.
__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: OOO
Posts: 3,724
Groaned at 79 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,683 Times in 1,017 Posts
Sada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
We kill people who kill people
To show people that killing people is wrong.
I guess everybody kind of enjoys being the judge of somebody else.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sada for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:23
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 637
Groaned at 71 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 469 Times in 247 Posts
saiya-jin has an excellent reputationsaiya-jin has an excellent reputationsaiya-jin has an excellent reputationsaiya-jin has an excellent reputation
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
Wow, this thread has had some comments in it which make me ashamed to be a human being.

It is natural for humans to want revenge, and it takes courage to forgive someone who attacked you, nearly killed you and did kill others.

It is not natural to avenge a killing with pre-meditated killing.

To execute someone is premeditated murder. It is planned out, to the last detail, and is sometimes a semi-public spectacle. That, to me, is more horrific than the original crime. Calmly and meticulously planning the death of another human being is a crime that can get you...ironically...the death penalty (in many states in America).
Sorry man, but this is pretty much bulls**t from my point of view. Simply because this would apply for example to all wars US and its friends have done/are doing now. Vietnam - 2 million civil causalities, mostly by US bombing. First, second Iraq, Afghanistan, etc... hundrets of thousands of innocent kills, just few guilty. To me there is no difference if there is average John Doe in US uniform holding his M-16 and killing kids, or... this guy.
Wars are very specifically planned, expected number of army & civil casualities are estimated etc. Do You think any of the architects will ever even face a jail? LOL
If You say such things about this, what do You say to any veteran eye to eye that is coming home? I seriously doubt words like that...
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:24
evilshell's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,347
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
evilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond reputeevilshell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
Has to be the most ridiculous statement you've made on this forum. Normally your statements are rather insightful...how do you come up with such drivel? Are you claiming that somehow the death penalty propagates more violence?
Yes, I'd say so because the government is condoning violence by using it against others.

Quote:
View Post
That serious punishment for serious crimes somehow makes us culturally violent? Are we somehow more violent that other societies due to the fact that we have guns? You come from the UK where people beat and kill others soley based on what football team they follow (with bricks, bottley, knives, flares - personally, I find this to be more violent than a gun), a place where intelligent, capable persons are moving away in droves to keep their children from such violence... do you consider it culturally violent?
I hail from the US, lived in Switzerland for years and now live in the UK. On the borders of a notorious crime area of Manchester.

Guns are hard to come by here, you can't go to the local ASDA (the UK WalMart) and buy a gun or ammunition. Obtaining a gun is a seedy experience with hardened criminals.

Even the average police here don't carry guns. Only specialist armed units do, and they don't patrol the streets with them.

The football issues you mention are not a daily occurrence here.

I see many intelligent, capable Brits staying put. Americans don't move as much because it isn't as easy for them (and other reasons).

Quote:
View Post
...BTW, per 100k persons, homicide rates US=6.5, Europe=5.4 not much difference. Gun crime is most certainly one of the highest in the world, however, part of that is due to access to weapons and part is due to levels of poverty that most people will never witness in person and therefore never understand the desparation that can lead one to a life of crime. ...
Source?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:24
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
Firstly, I apologise. I didn't mean to offend Americans. Clearly not all Americans are violent. If you're American, I'm sure you're a regular hippy. Drugs and fiscal desperation and the corporatist/capitalist paradigm and guns and the American Dream and the Almighty Dollar are all cultural and all linked.
Its ok - you're forgiven my child. Go in peace

(and I am not even American)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 20.07.2011, 11:28
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Forgiveness

Quote:
View Post
(and I am not even American)
I thought it was the 53rd state after Israel and Taiwan.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0