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  #121  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:35
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Re: Forgiveness

Basing sentencing on levels of forgiveness is quite possibly the most stupid thing i've ever heard.

If that were to be the case, i'd go and rob the Vatican tomorrow.
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  #122  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:36
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Re: Forgiveness

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Basing sentencing on levels of forgiveness is quite possibly the most stupid thing i've ever heard.
Who suggested that?
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  #123  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:37
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Re: Forgiveness

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I was about to post this, I think that there is a difference between mercy and forgiveness. The horrible thing about this speech is that shortly after the speech, when given the opportunity gentle Portia exacts revenge in a judicial system which is biased against Jews.



I was much affected by the writings of Alice Miller:



In any situation it is vitally important to me that forgiveness is not blind.

What worries me is when religious people forgive simply because they believe they will be rewarded in heaven without understanding the process. This man cannot make the pilgrimage to mecca and become a Haji unless he has practiced forgiveness. In Islam it is advised to forgive rather than seek vengeance, as exacting revenge may injure the innocent.

Islam acutally advises the guilty thus:
Right! so that explains the Friday after prayer party outside the mosque in Saudi Arabia does it?
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  #124  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:39
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Re: Forgiveness

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Right! so that explains the Friday after prayer party outside the mosque in Saudi Arabia does it?
No, it doesn't.

Those are just the stupid ones.
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  #125  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:40
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Re: Forgiveness

I have often found that religious people are not very quick in forgiving. In fact I know a woman who had to seek professional help because of the behaviour of others in a church she had been attending for many years.

Religion and forgiveness do not always go hand in hand.
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  #126  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:42
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Re: Forgiveness

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There is a difference between the victim forgiving the offender versus being accountable for your actions in public interest and to the legal system, which we all know, without that, that society will run amok.

Thats how I see it anyways
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What the state does in the name of the law, and what an individual victim does in his own name are two entirely different things.
Judge: Mr. Loser, according to the bankruptcy laws of the State, your debt to Mr. Money has been erased.

Mr. Loser: Whoohoo!

Mr Money: WTF?! Wait- I mean, who do I forgive? Mr. Loser or the State?


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  #127  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:43
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Re: Forgiveness

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I have often found that religious people are not very quick in forgiving.
What? You mean religious people are fallible, stupid, vengeful, cruel, selfish and lazy?

You do surprise me!

Next you'll be telling us that bears defecate in the woods...
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  #128  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:45
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Re: Forgiveness

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What? You mean religious people are fallible, stupid, vengeful, cruel, selfish and lazy?

You do surprise me!

Next you'll be telling us that bears defecate in the woods...
No, I'm telling you that religious people are more likely to be fallible, stupid, vengeful, cruel, selfish and lazy than non religious people. Now I can sit back and wait for the groans to prove me right.
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  #129  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:46
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Re: Forgiveness

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  #130  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:47
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Re: Forgiveness

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Basing sentencing on levels of forgiveness is quite possibly the most stupid thing i've ever heard.

If that were to be the case, i'd go and rob the Vatican tomorrow.
About 3 pages back. I am slow to forgive, but even slower to formulate a reply.
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  #131  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:47
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Re: Forgiveness

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No, I'm telling you that religious people are more likely to be fallible, stupid, vengeful, cruel, selfish and lazy than non religious people. Now I can sit back and wait for the groans to prove me right.
I presume you have some evidence to support that rather risible assertion?
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  #132  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:53
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Re: Forgiveness

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I presume you have some evidence to support that rather risible assertion?
Time will tell. But I can say that religious people that I know are quick to condemn and slow to forgive, based on members of my wider family. Not scientific but true in my family.
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  #133  
Old 20.07.2011, 14:55
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Re: Forgiveness

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Time will tell. But I can say that religious people that I know are quick to condemn and slow to forgive, based on members of my wider family. Not scientific but true in my family.
Well, there we go, then. It must be true.
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  #134  
Old 20.07.2011, 15:01
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Re: Forgiveness

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Basing sentencing on levels of forgiveness is quite possibly the most stupid thing i've ever heard.

If that were to be the case, i'd go and rob the Vatican tomorrow.

Witness Impact Statements are now read out in the UK Courts.
These affect sentencing. It seems you feel sentencing should be retributive, and not rehabilitive. The idea of justice is to be restorative to the victim and rehabilitive to the perpetrator.

If the victim forgives , why can't you ? What impact does it have on you ?

A spirtitual person may be aghast at the causality behind letting a perpetrator die at the hands of the State if a life saving act would be brought about by a single phrase of "I forgive". This does not mean let the person go free, but rather, forgive, understand and rehabilitate. A dead person is of no use to society, a rehabilitated man would/could contribute at many levels.
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  #135  
Old 20.07.2011, 15:02
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Re: Forgiveness

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Basing sentencing on levels of forgiveness is quite possibly the most stupid thing i've ever heard.

If that were to be the case, i'd go and rob the Vatican tomorrow.
In Islamic law, punishment can actually be withheld if the victim publically forgives the perpetrator and asks for the punishment to be withheld. If the victim is dead, his/her heirs can plead on his/her part.
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  #136  
Old 20.07.2011, 15:04
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Re: Forgiveness

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In Islamic law, punishment can actually be withheld if the victim publically forgives the perpetrator and asks for the punishment to be withheld. If the victim is dead, his/her heirs can plead on his/her part.
I believe its called blood money and payment has to be made
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  #137  
Old 20.07.2011, 15:13
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Re: Forgiveness

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Well, there we go, then. It must be true.
We have to base our views on something tangible and this is my personal experience. I can always make something up and base facts on that but what would that achieve? We have to draw from our experience.
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  #138  
Old 20.07.2011, 15:15
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Re: Forgiveness

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I presume you have some evidence to support that rather risible assertion?
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Time will tell.
So that's a "no" then.

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But I can say that religious people that I know are quick to condemn and slow to forgive, based on members of my wider family. Not scientific but true in my family.
In my family it's the red heads. The bastards.
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  #139  
Old 20.07.2011, 15:18
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Re: Forgiveness

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So that's a "no" then.
Well, since you groaned me you kind of proved me right, so I make it a yes.
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  #140  
Old 20.07.2011, 15:19
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Re: Forgiveness

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In my family it's the red heads. The bastards.
Ah but that's a fact we all know gingers don't have souls.
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