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Old 19.07.2011, 22:36
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Forgiveness

I think we could all learn a thing or two from Rais Bhuiyan.

(He is fighting to save the life of the man who shot him in the face and left him for dead)
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  #2  
Old 19.07.2011, 23:01
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Re: Forgiveness

I would never agree to save this criminal from his execution. He did something extremely bad, and he should pay the ultimate price, and maybe deter any other similar racist fools.

What can I learn? Compassion, forgiveness? He took two lives, how can any family forgive that crime?
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Old 19.07.2011, 23:09
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Re: Forgiveness

I think the concept of "turn the other cheek" is somewhat misguided and simplistic - and should come with a side of fries.
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Old 19.07.2011, 23:14
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Re: Forgiveness

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What can I learn? Compassion, forgiveness? He took two lives, how can any family forgive that crime?
I suppose if they were Christian, that's what they're supposed to do. I think that's even written down somewhere, along with something about not killing people. I'm pretty sure there weren't exceptions to that unless Moses lost a stony appendix somewhere on the hike out.
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Old 19.07.2011, 23:35
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I would never agree to save this criminal from his execution. He did something extremely bad, and he should pay the ultimate price, and maybe deter any other similar racist fools.

What can I learn? Compassion, forgiveness? He took two lives, how can any family forgive that crime?
Beside the point that forgiveness is a good and noble thing, the death penalty simply is wrong always.

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I suppose if they were Christian, that's what they're supposed to do. I think that's even written down somewhere, along with something about not killing people. I'm pretty sure there weren't exceptions to that unless Moses lost a stony appendix somewhere on the hike out.
well
Mine is the revenge ....... says God
.................................................
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Old 19.07.2011, 23:40
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Re: Forgiveness

Thanks for that link. I find that amazing, refreshing and beautiful.
In my opinion, that's true faith. Even with that horror he entailed, Rais Bhuiyan is just wants peace. I think that if you really have faith in your God or gods or leader or whatever.... then you trust they will do the judging. Just make peace with your own life. A very hard thing to do considering what a disgusting thing the guy did to him.

Edit: Actually, I just realised it was a video... I like the way he keeps calling him ignorant (he's not saying he's a changed man and all that). But anyway, the death penalty is not the way to go.

Last edited by yasmina; 20.07.2011 at 00:00.
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Old 20.07.2011, 00:12
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Re: Forgiveness

I like to think that I would do the same in that position. If it actually came to it, I am not sure that revenge and hate would not take over though.
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Old 20.07.2011, 00:27
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Re: Forgiveness

How can killing a person for killing some other person ever be the solution? No one is born to become a killer. It is our upbringing, society and the people around us, that make us what we are. We can not just put this dude to death in the name of justice. Sure, he should be kept behind bars for the safety of others, but more importantly, we need to educate people and find out the reasons behind so much hate... What was the reason in this person's case? Was it misinformation? or was it the lack of information? what was it that led him to take the lives of innocent human beings? Get to the root causes and stop just killing people randomly like insects.
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Old 20.07.2011, 00:32
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Re: Forgiveness

It might have been Sky news reporting the 9/11 killers were from Saudi Arabia that started him off on his killing spree. Maybe if he had had no access to firearms, he would not now be on death row. Maybe...
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Old 20.07.2011, 00:37
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Re: Forgiveness

Death penalty discussion? Is it that time of year again already .

Oh wait- forgiveness. Or, what?!

The shooter is on death row, the shootee has forgiven him and doesn't want him executed. I'm with it up to there, death is a difficult subject by all accounts best avoided. If he (the shot-ed) is successful, will he then campaign for the shoot-er to be released from prison altogether? Since he's forgiven and all? Probably difficult since there are laws against shooting people in the face.

But- then, the shot-ed man is the sole survivor of Mr. Shooter's Day Out, so easy enough for him to forgive. Harder for the others. The death penalty isn't for shooting Mr. Shot-ed-survivor, it's for killing the others in cold blood.

Dangit is this a forgiveness thread or a death penalty thread???

When my little brother lost my first pair of Ray Bans I bought with money hard earned as a 14 year old scrubbing the blood off of fishing boats in the evenings, I definitely wanted to kill him. I definitely didn't forgive him and he definitely bought me another freaking pair of shades.


Death penalty: 'contentious subject' puts it mildly. We divide and blurr morals so easily, it's ok to kill in war, when perhaps the recipient of the bullet or bomb has done nothing to merit his death; not ok when someone has killed in a calculated and cold blooded manner for no good reason. Okiedokie. In the U.S. at least, in some states at least, I predict the penalty will remain. Perhaps to make it sporting, the syringe must be plunged, gas released, or switch thrown by someone close to who was killed by the Convicted. I suspect most thoughtful people will refuse, perhaps at the last moment. 'Ignorant' or spiteful people may relish the task. Whatever the outcome, someone gets their satisfaction or someone learns something about their beliefs, or someone commits an act that will haunt them for their lives. At least that takes the Business of Death out of the hands of the Government.


Debates and circular discussion aside- I think that Rais Bhuyian calling out in defense of his attacker's life is quite a noble and respectable act. Accolades and applause to him.
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Old 20.07.2011, 01:07
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Re: Forgiveness

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I like to think that I would do the same in that position. If it actually came to it, I am not sure that revenge and hate would not take over though.
Now, I frankly am not so sure about what I WOULD do, but am perfectly sure about what I SHOULD do, and that is what Mr Bhuyan DOES.

And as the culprit apparently is insightful, the attempt to save him from execution is the right thing to do.
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Old 20.07.2011, 01:38
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Re: Forgiveness

To forgive , is to gain something great and positive from the event rather than suffer from it. It is the only way forward. The victim surely grows from the act ?

Execution is vengeance and retribution. All negative. Damaging in the long term to all involved.
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Old 20.07.2011, 03:09
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Re: Forgiveness

I hate sanctimonious b@stards, who preach forgiveness and 'closure'.- To err is human to forgive is divine....

Firstly, what right do you have to forgive a person who you may feel is guilty of something but others do not?

Secondly, you can't really forgive a person unless they seek forgiveness, otherwise they have no understanding/ admission of what they have done.

I think that forgiveness is a mutual understanding; you can gain as much from forgiving a person as a person can gain from being forgiven.

When there is no mutual agreement the only thing you can do is to try to ensure that it does not happen in future, try not to get bitter about it or demean yourself in acts of revenge.

I am a highly vindictive person, but I don't believe in the death penalty. Thou shalt not kill.

Last edited by hoppy; 20.07.2011 at 03:26.
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Old 20.07.2011, 07:38
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Re: Forgiveness

Simon Cowell should open a Death Factor franchise; bring back the Arena!
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Old 20.07.2011, 08:09
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Re: Forgiveness

The guy is a cold blooded killer so kill him. Simple really.
and don't even start with the 'he had a bad childhood, was left out in the rain, nobody loved him' crap. He is not the victim he is the killer.

If you kill, then expect to be killed.
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Old 20.07.2011, 08:12
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Re: Forgiveness

I don't often forgive people. My main aim is to not judge them in the first place as I hope people don't judge me too harshly for my errors. I'm sure I could forgive anything, if before I make my judgement, I invest a little time in hearing their whole story, which is the least I can do if I'm gonna comdem someone.
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Old 20.07.2011, 08:17
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Re: Forgiveness

I really hope your life keeps going as it is, that it doesn't all somehow change. That your family stay safe and that you never know the feeling of hate.

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The guy is a cold blooded killer so kill him. Simple really.
and don't even start with the 'he had a bad childhood, was left out in the rain, nobody loved him' crap. He is not the victim he is the killer.

If you kill, then expect to be killed.
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Old 20.07.2011, 08:27
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Re: Forgiveness

I tried to test this to see how I would react and whether I would be able to forgive someone who hurt me as deeply as anyone could. I based it on the scenario if someone murdered my husband and child.

I don't think I could ever forgive the killer, never. Effectively he/she would not only have taken away my family but condemned me to being full of hate for the rest of my life.

Having said that, I don't think I could condone the state executing him/her. For me that would be adding to my burden. No-one has the right to take a life as an act of revenge or punishment under any circumstances.

The killer should be kept away from doing any further harm and that should result in a life behind bars but the reason for that is to protect others.
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Old 20.07.2011, 08:34
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Re: Forgiveness

Test your theory on the little stuff. Forgive your Mum, your sister or your ex*, before you wonder if you can forgive a killer.

*I'm just giving examples here.

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I tried to test this to see how I would react and whether I would be able to forgive someone who hurt me as deeply as anyone could. I based it on the scenario if someone murdered my husband and child.

I don't think I could ever forgive the killer, never. Effectively he/she would not only have taken away my family but condemned me to being full of hate for the rest of my life.

Having said that, I don't think I could condone the state executing him/her. For me that would be adding to my burden. No-one has the right to take a life as an act of revenge or punishment under any circumstances.

The killer should be kept away from doing any further harm and that should result in a life behind bars but the reason for that is to protect others.
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Old 20.07.2011, 08:36
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Re: Forgiveness

This guy survived. Did anyone ask the opinions of the families of the guys he actually killed?
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