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  #121  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:04
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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My thoughts also are with the victims and their families and friends.

But I many hours ago have seen the international media and its audience jumping to conclusions and throw out conspiracy theories (elQaeda) within moments. THIS behaviour is what did NOT help in collecting facts and figures.
Everyone wants more Oil
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  #122  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:05
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Is it only me or is this guy actually having the same tone as SVP / UDC?
And your point is?
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  #123  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:05
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Det essensielle som mange glemmer er at dagens politiske “hovedkamp” ikke lenger omhandler sosialisme vs. kapitalisme men derimot nasjonalisme (kulturkonservatisme) vs. internasjonalisme (kulturmarxisme/multikulturalisme). Og det er denne kampen som engasjerer mest i følge meningsmålinger (frykten for videre Islamisering)."
Rough translation:

The essential element that a lot of people forget is that the "main fight" in today's politics is not anymore about socialism vs. capitalism but about nationalism (culture conservatism) vs. internationalism (culture marxism, multiculturalism). And this is the fight that engages (interests, motivates) people the most according to pools (fear for further islamizing)
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  #124  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:05
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

[QUOTE=zymogen;1273815]The last question now is who gave him the bombs and trained him?

The massacre isn't even 24h old, victims haven't all been identified, evidence hasn't been collected and the motivation of the suspect is still not completely established. A tendency to jump to conclusions and throw out conspiracy theories (Mossad?) doesn't help in collecting facts and figures.

My thoughts are with the victims and their families.[/QUOTE

You could get the ingredents for ANFO at almost any garden center.
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  #125  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:08
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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You could get the ingredents for ANFO at almost any garden center.
Plus it seems that the guy was running a company growing vegetables...
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  #126  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:18
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Apparently all western media kinda lost the hype interest in the story now after discovering it was Christian fundamentalist and not Islamists behind the attack.....yesterday all their site showed big font title "Terror attack in Norway". today it's all cornered down and some still discussing Islamists, these people are just so awkward and literally bizarre
Now, in their WEBsites, papers like the Tages Anzeiger made the U-turn required
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/ausland/...story/28606779
but as most morning papers are written before midnight, the printed media this morning of course is outdated. I might even say that many journalists are confused. You see, most media in the world have tons of info about elQaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizbullah, but few media folks have ANY info about right-wing extremism in Scandinavia. "Front Titles" are not made by writing journalists but by professional "titlers", and they simply lack the input still. Add to this the likelihood that it was a one-man-terrorism-act and then you realize their predicament.

The salami-tactics of the Norwegian authorities, only to hand out information in small slices, does not make the job of the media-folks any easier. I might recommend the Norwegian authorities to open up a bit more, as those media chaps and girls at one point or the other might retaliate in kind.
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  #127  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:21
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

A.B.B. has been buying large amounts of artificial fertilizer, stating it was for his for his company Geofarm.

"NRK.no:Oddny Estenstad i Felleskjøpet bekrefter at den siktede er kunde hos dem. Det antas at Behring Breivik har kjøpt store mengder kunstgjødsel gjennom firmaet sitt, Geofarm. Kunstgjødsel kan brukes til å lage bomber."
From http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.ph...e639a1a&ipod=y
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  #128  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:26
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

This event is horrible and the loss of so many young life is unbearable for a small country like Norway. There are many lessons to take from this regarding security and anti-terrorism efforts, but I'd like to talk about a few lessons EF users could use:

1) Don't jump into conclusions before learning the facts. Realize that your sweeping comments about groups of people may be unfounded (and hurtful to some of your EF buddies)

2) When proven wrong, show humility (and not shamelessness)

3) Be careful about semantics, words are after all what we use to think, express ourselves and disseminate ideas. When you are not an expert on a particular field, refrain from using their terminology. Just ask an insider what they think about your using such terminology, whether is its appropriate, accurate and thoughtful.

Peace!
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  #129  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:27
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Islamic terrorism: international in nature - of great interest to everyone else;

Nationalist/Christian terrorism: domestic in nature - of little interest to everyone else;

I blame the Jews!

Oh, hang on. Someone already did that.

My mistake...
Your post may have been made with some humour in your mind BUT you unfortunately did hit a major matter. Islamist (fundamentalist radical Islamic terrorism) for decades was domestic in nature and of limited interest to anybody else, until it became widened and internationalized.

In this case now it looks as if it was a one-man-terrorist but if you look at the already known facts, his positions were
- anti-Muslim
- (radical-extremist) Christian-Conservative
and so "internationalist" by nature

A "copycat" of him may well attack an SAS airplane enroute from Oslo to the Middle East, just to take one example. THIS is the danger at hand. Just to watch the scene as the Norwegian and Swedish police forces have done in recent years in the longer term may prove to no longer be sufficient. What they however really should do and can do and will do is the big question and the big problem.
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  #130  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:27
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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blah blah blah
Thank you for your contribution.
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  #131  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:31
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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The salami-tactics of the Norwegian authorities, only to hand out information in small slices, does not make the job of the media-folks any easier. I might recommend the Norwegian authorities to open up a bit more, as those media chaps and girls at one point or the other might retaliate in kind.
I strongly prefer Norwegian authorities to do a proper investigation and publish substantiated information once it becomes available instead of jumping to conclusions to satisfy the media.
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  #132  
Old 23.07.2011, 12:47
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Some witnesses are convinced there was another man (not wearing a uniform) helping Behring at the island. The witnesses claim they heard shots from two directions at the same time. They describe the other man as a Nordic-looking man with dark hair, 180 cm tall, a gun in his hand and a rifle on his back.
http://touch.vg.no/article.php?artid=10080627
EDIT: This has not been confirmed by other witnesses or the police.

Last edited by annagrynsmith; 23.07.2011 at 12:51. Reason: Addition
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  #133  
Old 23.07.2011, 13:13
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Some more interesting read from the Norwegian Police Annual Threat Assesment 2011 :



Anyone who have friends or family in Norway, there's major shortage in bloodbank specially "O" type....they're really in need of donors to be able to save lives, phone number: +4722118900 #blodbanken
My blood group is O+ve and would like to help. What are the procedures? Poor families
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  #134  
Old 23.07.2011, 13:20
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

From what I've read, it seems they have enough blood at the hospital(s). But you can send your condolences here
http://www20.nrk.no/meldinger/webmel...623&type=skriv
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  #135  
Old 23.07.2011, 13:34
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Sorry but there is a contradiction. You first shake your head about Islam (I suppose you mean fundamentalist extremists ? and not the religion) and Judaism (or did you mean the Mossad or some Israeli extremists ? ); and then you speak about speculations. Subject to speculation may be what you regard as "civilized world" !
I was referring to the speculations in previous posts. And indeed, that is why I wrote "civilised" in quotes.

It seems to be very human to point a finger all too quickly. The sheer number of victims suggests that this can hardly be a one man's action. I don't know what to make of it. I hope we can put our trust in the official investigations...
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  #136  
Old 23.07.2011, 13:36
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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When exactly has Blick become a reliable source of information? ...duh
Blick is of course a sensation-monger, but their journalists for years were advised to keep to the facts, even if making things up somewhat. At the other hand, Blick very often is the one who makes matters public others hesitate about. So that much of what you now can see on their WEBsite will be in Sonntags-Zeitung and NZZ am Sonntag right tomorrow.
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Old 23.07.2011, 13:37
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Some witnesses are convinced there was another man (not wearing a uniform) helping Behring at the island. The witnesses claim they heard shots from two directions at the same time. They describe the other man as a Nordic-looking man with dark hair, 180 cm tall, a gun in his hand and a rifle on his back.
http://touch.vg.no/article.php?artid=10080627
EDIT: This has not been confirmed by other witnesses or the police.
The police confirmed that they are taking these witnesses seriously and are looking. That would explain why the army stands at sensitive places in the city. Police chef talked to VG, the (bad) newspaper who wrote about it immediately. Strange situation... fear of a free terrorist walking around in the city but on the other hand, their action was focus on clear identified targets, so what to do? Inform people even if nothing is confirmed or remotely sure or keep the whole city at home for the time being. Hard balance.
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  #138  
Old 23.07.2011, 13:43
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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I strongly prefer Norwegian authorities to do a proper investigation and publish substantiated information once it becomes available instead of jumping to conclusions to satisfy the media.
This is true, at least in theory. Nobody expects them to publish swift conclusions, but everybody demands of them proper investigations. But the suspicion remains that they, even after they find something out, play for time and only release their results as slowly as possible. Things became public in the early morning which most presumably already were known at 11pm, but they know that newspapers have the closing deadlines between 10pm and 1-am and so quite obviously waited a few hours. Authorities often apply such tricks and then are shocked when reporters/journalists react in kind.
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Old 23.07.2011, 13:46
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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Some witnesses are convinced there was another man (not wearing a uniform) helping Behring at the island. The witnesses claim they heard shots from two directions at the same time. They describe the other man as a Nordic-looking man with dark hair, 180 cm tall, a gun in his hand and a rifle on his back.
http://touch.vg.no/article.php?artid=10080627
EDIT: This has not been confirmed by other witnesses or the police.
In this case I fully support the police NOT to go public with "details" about something they not only have still to investigate, but about a person they most presumably are searching for right now. They realize of course that an additional culprit HAS access to the internet.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 23.07.2011 at 14:55.
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  #140  
Old 23.07.2011, 13:50
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

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I was referring to the speculations in previous posts. And indeed, that is why I wrote "civilised" in quotes.

It seems to be very human to point a finger all too quickly. The sheer number of victims suggests that this can hardly be a one man's action. I don't know what to make of it. I hope we can put our trust in the official investigations...
The number of victims does not mean much. While I admit that I also from their numbers feel tempted to consider more culprits. And the reports about at least one additional shooter may support such feelings.
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