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-   -   What to do so people stop hating the UK? (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/121339-what-do-so-people-stop-hating-uk.html)

bigblue2 08.08.2011 09:50

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1292241)

*although they might really be nice people, they just behave like assholes.


no, they really are arseholes

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 09:50

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cannut (Post 1292102)
Hoppy! do you have relatives in Germany ,a uncle named Adolph ? :rolleyes:

So great list of possible positive changes by the other poster.
Your comment is intriguing:

Beside the Nazi's system reference- Do you think it's wrong to implement in UK some cultural or society...aspects from other countries?

For example seeing from the states that ghettos are bad for everyone; UK could avoid doing them-


I don't think it will change the "soul" of the UK if those changes are made.

glinaa 08.08.2011 09:52

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1292241)
Such as letting free criminals who do it again and again; Suing people who defended themselves while being robbed by armed men, paying lot of benefits to people who won't make any efforts toward the society, etc...


So I initially said to be rude when necessary, i'm tempted to be rude toward your nice utopic version and your "everyone is nice" comments...

And in the spirit of being open minded, i'd love you to meet those nice British and confirm if they are nice people:*

*although they might really be nice people, they just behave like assholes.

Believe it or not, Poland (and most likely lots of other countries) have word by word EXACTLY the same problems.

poor law enforcement? check
overcrowded prisons? check
judical system failing? check
hooligans? oooh yeah, check

But seeing a nationality, as a sum of its countrys' political and organizational problems is a miss. You'll struggle to find a country which has none of them. In fact, most are actually common to all.

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 09:54

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 1292245)
no, they really are arseholes

Yes i'm definitely not defending them- Especially the one who have been actually done crimes- I'm also against the stupid one who keep the look to be "group idiot follower".

But I don't want to judge them only from their crappy look- Or I don't want to target negative comments only towards them.

I'd also like to shoot their parents, or the one responsible for them.
And maybe the idiots from the education system who doe not make appropriate measures to adapt to that situation: after all "nedism" is spreading or has spread; maybe some education can be made early to make that not happen.

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 09:59

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by glinaa (Post 1292252)
Believe it or not, Poland (and most likely lots of other countries) have word by word EXACTLY the same problems.

poor law enforcement? check
overcrowded prisons? check
judical system failing? check
hooligans? oooh yeah, check

But seeing a nationality, as a sum of its countrys' political and organizational problems is a miss. You'll struggle to find a country which has none of them. In fact, most are actually common to all.

But no one hate the nationality. People hate the "UK" as "living there" for the negative things we have listed. And this topic is about suggesting solutions to those problem (because UK's government is too busy pocketing expenses money so they don't have time to look for solutions).

You are right all countries have problems, so let's do nothing about them.

Let's keep the law (a set of rules being written by human beings for regulating a specific context), let's tolerate that people who have been hitting a robber can go to jail, etc....

I'll start to love everything and everyone from now on.


Ha I had my bike stolen, I love the guy! Thank you, i will be able to use public transport from now on. Thaaaaanks! And if I was in another country, maybe they'll have rob me some organs. So it's good to live here!
Love forever!


:hippy:

bigblue2 08.08.2011 10:02

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1292254)
Yes i'm definitely not defending them- Especially the one who have been actually done crimes- I'm also against the stupid one who keep the look to be "group idiot follower".

But I don't want to judge them only from their crappy look- Or I don't want to target negative comments only towards them.

I'd also like to shoot their parents, or the one responsible for them.
And maybe the idiots from the education system who doe not make appropriate measures to adapt to that situation: after all "nedism" is spreading or has spread; maybe some education can be made early to make that not happen.


you can't really blame the schools etc, there hands are just as much tied as the polices (this makes me sound and feel old :( ) in my day if you misbehaved in school then the teachers would give you a swift backhander, do it again and your in detention, again and your out, expelled. now all the kids "know there rights" teachers can't do anything, letter home to the parents and they couldn't give a toss, schools have to concentrate on exam results and league tables to prove they are good or bad, its bollocks.

I remember one geography lesson, with the strictest teacher in the school, one annoying kid shouted out a crap joke, the teacher went ape, dragged him over the table, outside and gave him a bit of a beating, what happend? nothing, the kid was too scared to tell his parents, as he'd have probably got another beating from them, and our class never messed around again, the kid in question went on to win a place in grammer school and did very well for himself.

glinaa 08.08.2011 10:02

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1292261)
Ha I had my bike stolen, I love the guy! Thank you, i will be able to use public transport from now on. Thaaaaanks! And if I was in another country, maybe they'll have rob me some organs. So it's good to live here!
Love forever!
:hippy:

Hate breeds hate -you know that, don't you? ;-)

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 10:12

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by glinaa (Post 1292270)
Hate breeds hate -you know that, don't you? ;-)

That's why I made a topic called "What to do so people stop hating the UK?"

Bring realistic possible solutions/suggestions...

As opposed to say "yeah it's worse somewhere else, British are nice, etc..."
There's 61,838,154 people in the UK (officially because they must be more due to the counting techniques).

Are they all nice?

Problem is utopia people like your kind, who keep spreading "positive" toward anything.

There's some criminals- It's ok, I met them they are nice
There's horrible laws- It's ok it's worse in Singapore
There's crime in Manchester- it's ok it's worse in Nigeria
There's some stabbing issue in London- it's ok they use guns in Nigeria


:hippy:...:piss:

mirfield 08.08.2011 10:32

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 1292268)
you can't really blame the schools etc, there hands are just as much tied as the polices

As Frankie Boyle says;

What's it coming to when a teacher can't hold a pupil down and hit him with a dumbell, shouting "Die, die, die!".

It's political correctness gone mad.

Guest 08.08.2011 10:38

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Perhaps the United Kingdom needs some marketing consultants to come up with some rebranding?

http://www.housetohome.co.uk/image/5...door-mat-3.jpg

VISIT COOLIA!
WE DID GIV U DA BEACKLES, DA SEXY PISTOLS AND DA WOMBLES! WE IS DA COOOOOLIST COUNTRY IN DA WORLD! COME HANG WIV US INNIT!

AN JUS IN CASE U WORRID, WE DON AV NO CHAVS. ONIST.

greenmount 08.08.2011 11:09

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1292281)
That's why I made a topic called "What to do so people stop hating the UK?"

Bring realistic possible solutions/suggestions...

As opposed to say "yeah it's worse somewhere else, British are nice, etc..."
There's 61,838,154 people in the UK (officially because they must be more due to the counting techniques).

Are they all nice?

Problem is utopia people like your kind, who keep spreading "positive" toward anything.

There's some criminals- It's ok, I met them they are nice
There's horrible laws- It's ok it's worse in Singapore
There's crime in Manchester- it's ok it's worse in Nigeria
There's some stabbing issue in London- it's ok they use guns in Nigeria


:hippy:...:piss:

You seem the type who would enjoy a long stay in Saudi Arabia, I guess you'd find there an orderly society..:D

So, yeah, go there. And report us about your happy staying.:rolleyes:

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 11:14

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 1292406)
You seem the type who would enjoy a long stay in Saudi Arabia, I guess you'd find there an orderly society..:D

So, yeah, go there. And report us about your happy staying.:rolleyes:

I've been there, along with many other places (Singapore, etc...).
I'm not talking about an orderly society.

And if you would read carefully, you would have noticed i'm talking about changing some stupid laws (which is questioning the authorities, the rules, which is far from being allowed in the countries we quoted).

And I'm just helping with "suggestion" or collecting the "UK hater's" suggestions.

Is that any wrong?

greenmount 08.08.2011 11:51

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1292427)
And I'm just helping with "suggestion" or collecting the "UK hater's" suggestions.

Is that any wrong?

No, that is no wrong..

Suggestions
Skip the word "great" in the country's denomination :p
Use the social welfare more carefully, as there are people who abuse this.
Encourage people to not think they're failures if they don't work in an office.
Encourage youth to make sports, as opposed to hanging out with the boys.
Stop chasing the Middleton sisters and presenting them as a model to follow for the girls..
Cut the subsidies for useless NGO's.
Increase the taxation for the rich and use it to develop community facilities - youth and senior clubs etc.

and hey, if you'd excuse me, I have to finish my coffee now.:):p:msnblush:

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 12:18

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 1292488)
No, that is no wrong..

Suggestions
Skip the word "great" in the country's denomination :p
Use the social welfare more carefully, as there are people who abuse this.
Encourage people to not think they're failures if they don't work in an office.
Encourage youth to make sports, as opposed to hanging out with the boys.
Stop chasing the Middleton sisters and presenting them as a model to follow for the girls..
Cut the subsidies for useless NGO's.
Increase the taxation for the rich and use it to develop community facilities - youth and senior clubs etc.

and hey, if you'd excuse me, I have to finish my coffee now.:):p:msnblush:

That's great! Thanks for the suggestions.
They look very reasonable and adapted to social issues in the UK.
I'd also add about the "failures if they don't work in an office." something about the crappy reality shows: show the kids that being a "star" (or a crappy public person" is not proof of success. Well it seems to be because they are loaded and everything but I believe in more worthy values like being scientist, doctor, office worker, carpenter, etc... Those are more important than being a stupid prick behind a camera.


I was actually thinking of a "social experiment" based on your comment:
"Encourage.." How do you encourage someone on a society scale?
Punishment/repression?
Education? (but then it takes ages, and it's too late for generations)
Reward? (as you said our reward values are really limited to being in an office...or being loaded).
etc...

A possible "experiment" (probably looks "funny"): based on the video games:
a system of levels/ experience.

We have public money, we more or less agree it's often spend like stupid. In any case it's 1 way process: out of your pocket -> gone (spend like crappy).

That "system" could engage citizens to feel more responsible, engage, and feel reward to it:

Define a list of worthy social actions and create social activities. Provide a number of experience for each of them. Check completion by a special officer (or judge). Every lot of experience gain a "social level". Possible reward: Citizen level 5 for example would get a very little rebate on their tax. For example
You are +5 you pay 1% less on your tax as opposed to a level 0... Because in any case you've prove worthy to the society, they dont need to invest so much public money for than than for the ned who pollutes, etc...


Example of activities:
- teaching anything you know (carpenter, office, cooking, whatever) to migrants or anyone= integration, feeling of worthyness, etc...
- attending teachings (1 hour a week or something not heavy)
- Cleaning the trains sessions (easy way to get experience; showing cleaning is not reserved to lower class, etc...)
- Recycling collections (help cleaning, easy way, etc...).
-Working!! YES by default you work, you pay taxes. it's good enough for the society



So I don't think it would be too much "government regulation" (as saoudians countries) but more citizenship involvment and a real reward system to make citizen happy.

PS: it's just an IDEA and I don't think it has ever been applied in any countries. Maybe that's a possible "new society model"?

I would think it would help migrants, locals etc...

greenmount 08.08.2011 14:08

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Well, you said it yourself, encourage like in educate and reward (through taxation? better wages for workers, public attention as in "employee of the month"), it seems it will take ages, but Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say...Would be actually quite an idea to involve celebs in A day of cleaning type of activities, ha ha, can you imagine Peppa M. helping with the cleaning of a train?:msnsarcastic: So yeah, citizenship involment is the key, but we all know that everything is easier said than done, we're all reluctant to get out of our own safety net..;)

Guest 08.08.2011 14:11

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Brilliant: A Rumanian and a Frenchman discussing how to put the United Kingdom right.

I love the EF! :D

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 14:18

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Brilliant: A Rumanian and a Frenchman discussing how to put the United Kingdom right.

I love the EF! :D
Right, only that I mentionned it should not impact UK "traditional Culture" (unless chavism or nedism is part of UK culture and should be left untouched? :D)

I only based the discussions on what we defined as reasons to "hate the UK"- comments posted by English.

Also some people have lived in the UK long enough to be able to comment on the British society :D

Unless we were "welcomed" just to be politically correct and that we never had a chance to be "equals" as other "native british citizen"?

I though UK was all about migration and integration :rolleyes:

Anyway, what do you think about the suggestions, besides our "origins"?
Do you think it would ruin UK culture? (it might, just collecting thoughts)
Do you think it would bring solutions to most reported problems?

Guest 08.08.2011 14:20

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1292768)
Anyway, what do you think about the suggestions, besides our "origins"?

I live in Switzerland. ;)

CorsebouTheReturn 08.08.2011 14:22

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 1292740)
Well, you said it yourself, encourage like in educate and reward (through taxation? better wages for workers, public attention as in "employee of the month"), it seems it will take ages, but Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say...Would be actually quite an idea to involve celebs in A day of cleaning type of activities, ha ha, can you imagine Peppa M. helping with the cleaning of a train?:msnsarcastic: So yeah, citizenship involment is the key, but we all know that everything is easier said than done, we're all reluctant to get out of our own safety net..;)

So to "get out of our safety net" how about a system that rewards your current society efforts (working, recycling, etc...) and encourage any citizen to do more in exchange of a "level" to recognize your efforts, value them in the society, and financial outcome (reducing your tax percent contribution)?

That seems fair: it lives freedom to those who don't want to contribute actively (still they will be rewarded by working); it will bring real advantages for those doing a bit more (less taxes) and remove the current issues (dirts, recycling, etc...).

It does not remove some of our system (like fines for polluters, etc...).

simon_ch 08.08.2011 14:49

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Ok, here are my suggestions, strictly from an outsider's perspective.

Unemployment/Immigration:
- To combat unemployment you need to a) have jobs that pay more than benefits and b) regulate immigration so that there's always an artificial shortage in jobseekers. Therefore the UK should introduce minimum benefits that are not comfortable to live on, anything extra only through community work, proven time spent with applications, training etc. And force the industry to swallow the bitter pill; reintegrate unwilling locals into the workforce instead of hiring motivated foreigners. In order to properly regulate immigration, the UK would need to leave Schengen, define the average (not median) salary in each industry as the minimum salary a foreigner can be employed for (based on taxes paid, gov stats), thus ensuring that only the most required and proficient workers/expats come. A bit more controversial but also necessary, deport all illegal immigrants, no benefits for foreigners (but also no payments into the social systems), family cannot automatically move. Further ease employment laws to make the labour market more dynamic and liberal.

All this won't work without a competitive economy of course, therefore:
-Leave the EU and refuse any transfer payments
-FTAs with major trading partners
-Adopt EU norms and product declarations as well as metrics to integrate well into the European economies and avoid bureaucracy.
-Stop subsidies to weak regions, but allow federalised taxation
-Encourage FDI and provide assistance for new businesses
-Trim NHS to its essentials instead of abandoning the system
-Cut red tape and regulations in all areas
-Stop overreliance and tax cuts for banking sector, encourage knowledge and technology intensive industries to settle (there's a reason Google HQ is not in the UK, and that reason is not just taxes)
-Counter heavy cuts in non-productive areas (defense, health-care, social security, public employees) with more spending in productive areas (education, infrastructure)

The overarching idea is that a country cannot be succesful in the long term without being competitive on the global level. High salaries and a large middle class are only possible with global economic champions, regulated immigration, great education on all levels and a strong incentive to be a productive member of society.

All short-term efforts to kick-start the economy, soften the pain, bail-out the failed or failing will only prolong the misery.

And last but not least: Get rid of your monarchy and introduce a foreign (read: Swiss) dictator. Me? Oh well.. since you're asking..


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