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-   -   What to do so people stop hating the UK? (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/121339-what-do-so-people-stop-hating-uk.html)

CorsebouTheReturn 05.08.2011 16:05

What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
After the complains on " Why do people hate the UK?", what to do to make it a better place?.

Warning: you can be rude, stick the politically correct in your a.rse if your post is intended to make a "better place": that's what we want, no matter how.
Also the "changes" have to be realistic but feel free to submit anything which is "possible but unlikely". After all, sometimes it takes little to start a change.

What strategy? The "Qui aimes bien Chatie bien" (who likes, punishes)?
The education way? (knowing that results will be visible only after generations (meaning= you're fecked for an additional 25 years at best):

I start from the "typical hateful reasons" we established:
-Council tax: reform to change how it works. Entirely. Severe control over how the expenses are done. Validation by votes of the major expenses. Control over "public government parasites" expenses.
-Social Housing: Think. Observe. Observe other countries. See that "packing" does not works. Make "human compatible" architecture designs. Why not adding green to the rooftops as a "urban garden". No more packing of blocks.

-Chav, nerds: education + punishment
-Justice system: radical change, immediate sanctions/actions against criminals. Change of protection status for victims.

-Banks: force them to pay interest back regularly. Control their internal bonuses, take percent out of it to reverse that to the public expense pot.

-Jobs, crisis: stop pretending Job centres are a "solution" But create immediate real help/assistance to those in needs.

-Economy, crisis: try everything to make people purchase, which would start the economy and avoid job losses. Example: temporary exceptional exemption of the VAT. Not a ridiculous 1% reduction over a year. 0% for the next 3 months, 5% for the next 6 months, 10% for the next etc... Businesses will have time to adapt and create jobs. People to buy, etc... (public money? pff)

bigblue2 05.08.2011 16:06

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
give the police back some power, let them give the scum youth a quick back hander without fear of reprisals

Nuke brixton from orbit

Guest 05.08.2011 16:09

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Full reserve banking system would be a start, force short term returns on the banks on taxpayers money.

Money control back to the BoE.

Make lobbying of politicians illegal by any company. Jail sentence of 10 years minimum for all participants. This includes non-exec./pension positions in large companies. It should be illegal to take up after 10 years of leaving politicans position.

Perhaps then the focus would be back on majority of the people in the country and not the select few and their mates lining their pockets.

Louis Wu 05.08.2011 16:33

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Actually enforce some of the laws that are already available rather than knee jerk to some political bandwagon jumper and pass yet another piece of legislation that gets ignored. An example would be litter. Anyone taken the train from Gatwick into London recently? Bloody disgusting disgrace with shite lying both sides of the track for miles. There's no need for any more laws to tackle this problem, what's needed is the will to enforce the ones that already exist. Once people start living in a cleaner environment they just might start caring about it a little more.

Oh, and yes, nuke Brixton from orbit, it's the only way to be sure ;-)

Upthehatters2008 05.08.2011 16:38

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Larger Jaffa Cakes.
1200g Pot Noodles.
Subsidised Cheese and Pickle sandwiches.
Doner Kebab outlets in Pubs.
Bring back the Stocks for outrageous mullets.
Move it 300Km further away from France.
Loud shirts and ties to be mandatory in the City on Fridays.

Carlos R 05.08.2011 16:47

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Nowt to do. Need to instil some national pride - not nationalistic jingoism.

What I like about CH is that generally speaking national pride manifests itself in:
- a work ethic across ALL of society
- people value good quality, not just in personal material possessions e.g. a car, but a public transport system that works, where the majority of things are not vandalised to ruin, where goods belonging to a company or shop can be left on the pavement at night with no fear of theft
- natives know what it means to be Swiss, yes, sure I laugh at their big outdoor alpine music concerts, but I also have a grudging respect

These things cannot really be fixed by external influence, e.g. making the law stronger, giving more power to the police, etc.

They require the individual to make a collective effort and contribute rather than take.

The UK's values and morals are as bankrupt as its manufacturing industry and without these it won't be fixed, and the Chavs, "popular culture" and the pervasive me-me-me attitude will remain.

It's that old chestnut: Ask not what can my country can do for me, but what I can do for my country.

Now clearly, this doesn't apply to all, but it does apply to a majority, or least an influential large minority, who are dragging the rest down with them.

gata 05.08.2011 16:51

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Jeremy Clarkson for prime minister

smackerjack 05.08.2011 16:53

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Bigger Mars Bars...................

Louis Wu 05.08.2011 16:58

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos R (Post 1289736)
Nowt to do. Need to instil some national pride - not nationalistic jingoism.

What I like about CH is that generally speaking national pride manifests itself in:
- a work ethic across ALL of society
- people value good quality, not just in personal material possessions e.g. a car, but a public transport system that works, where the majority of things are not vandalised to ruin, where goods belonging to a company or shop can be left on the pavement at night with no fear of theft
- natives know what it means to be Swiss, yes, sure I laugh at their big outdoor alpine music concerts, but I also have a grudging respect

These things cannot really be fixed by external influence, e.g. making the law stronger, giving more power to the police, etc.

They require the individual to make a collective effort and contribute rather than take.

The UK's values and morals are as bankrupt as its manufacturing industry and without these it won't be fixed, and the Chavs, "popular culture" and the pervasive me-me-me attitude will remain.

It's that old chestnut: Ask not what can my country can do for me, but what I can do for my country.

Now clearly, this doesn't apply to all, but it does apply to a majority, or least an influential large minority, who are dragging the rest down with them.


Well said. You know, as I see it, one of the problems in the UK is that for some time, many people including some politicians worked to make it unacceptable to be proud of your country. To be proud was to be anti multiculturalism, anti immigration, anti many many things. It was almost seen as though the only correct attitude was to be apologetic to the poor down trodden former colonies whilst accepting that UK Ltd was down the toilet so f**k it.

A thin line needs to be trodden, there is marked difference between being proud of a country and being blindly patriotic with narry a care for some of the plainly less glamourous deeds of the nation. An example being the Iraq War. Plenty of people were against this war yet to stand up and protest meant running the risk of being accused of being unpatriotic. How many of those that supported the war at the time will now be squirming at little with the information now turning up at the Chilcot Enquiry? Yes I know hindsight is 20/20 vision but for those that there in a position of power to now claim they didn't know is quite plainly, utter bollocks.

Anyway I digress, the point I was trying to make was that taking a pride in your country isn't a bad thing per se and that ties in with my comment about litter earlier. Britain is a largely varied and largely beautiful place, it's just a shame that some of the inhabitants regard it as their playground and they never need tidy their bedroom.

Louis Wu 05.08.2011 16:58

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smackerjack (Post 1289748)
Bigger Mars Bars...................


Why? Have you been to talking to Marianne Faithfull?

mirfield 05.08.2011 17:07

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Just leave it as it's going.

It'll soon become an anonymous backwater that nobody cares about one way or the other. A bit like Switzerland.

adrianlondon 05.08.2011 17:10

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1289651)
Chav, nerds: education + punishment

Yeah! Take that, nerds!

CorsebouTheReturn 05.08.2011 17:14

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 1289653)
give the police back some power, let them give the scum youth a quick back hander without fear of reprisals

Nuke brixton from orbit

Ok about the police power. But unfortunately we switched from the 70's type of police
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...04_468x320.jpg).

Where there' was too much room from abuses-

to the "nowadays type" where a slap to an aggressive criminal seems to be a crime against humanity.

So we could try to have a "in between". Maybe introducing Video capture during each intervention and letting them review by a set of judges (or trustable authorities) along with allowing minor use to "restrain" such as slap?

Maybe the combination will allow the police forces to be actually catching criminals, and yet offering all citizens a fair chance while being arrested?

Yes it's heavy process but would look fair?

CorsebouTheReturn 05.08.2011 17:17

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cata1yst (Post 1289658)
Full reserve banking system would be a start, force short term returns on the banks on taxpayers money.

Money control back to the BoE.

Make lobbying of politicians illegal by any company. Jail sentence of 10 years minimum for all participants. This includes non-exec./pension positions in large companies. It should be illegal to take up after 10 years of leaving politicans position.

Perhaps then the focus would be back on majority of the people in the country and not the select few and their mates lining their pockets.

That's doable- but UK's leaders (the one who sworn to serve their country) aren't born yet... :rolleyes:

So how to verify that the few and their mate are not lining their pockets?
Maybe reviewing expenses, budget by another external authority, or by the public?
Maybe voting for significant expenses to a council? (but then if thousands of chav are voting... :msnsick:).

Also, how to get back the power from the "few" now? Because they make the laws, they make the decisions, etc...

CorsebouTheReturn 05.08.2011 17:22

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Wu (Post 1289716)
Actually enforce some of the laws that are already available rather than knee jerk to some political bandwagon jumper and pass yet another piece of legislation that gets ignored. An example would be litter. Anyone taken the train from Gatwick into London recently? Bloody disgusting disgrace with shite lying both sides of the track for miles. There's no need for any more laws to tackle this problem, what's needed is the will to enforce the ones that already exist. Once people start living in a cleaner environment they just might start caring about it a little more.

Oh, and yes, nuke Brixton from orbit, it's the only way to be sure ;-)

Ok so your suggestion is to enforce the law towards littering.
Is there any alternative?
Education/sanctions/Encouraging behaviors/etc... ?

How about some "community service" targeted to tackle common issues like train littering? (ie forcing minor criminals to clean the trains).

But then people would feel "allowed/encouraged" to put dirt everywhere...

How about forcing civilians to report on abusers? But then it's a strange society, a bit like here... reporting to the agency some noise issues, etc...

We have technology to capture images, etc... a small change of law and it's doable...
but not the best maybe.


How about, when seats are "nominated", some kind of "inspection" prior/after seating, like a "flat handover" (but then it's sloooow, etc...)

Let's try other doable thing.

cyrus 05.08.2011 17:25

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1289786)
to the "nowadays type" where a slap to an aggressive criminal seems to be a crime against humanity.


But is it really the case that Police officers cannot use force against uncompliant criminals? I don't think it is.

Being the case that the police can use reasonable force, what you seem to be suggesting is police officers be allowed to sentence criminals to instant justice without facing trial.

cyrus 05.08.2011 17:27

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
As to the littering on trains, I think putting back the bins would be a good start.

mirfield 05.08.2011 17:27

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrus (Post 1289809)
what you seem to be suggesting is police officers be allowed to sentence criminals to instant justice without facing trial.

I once got a clip round the ear with a policeman's glove for smiling as I walked round a corner.

Never did me no 'arm :msncrazy:

Louis Wu 05.08.2011 17:36

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 1289804)
Ok so your suggestion is to enforce the law towards littering.
Is there any alternative?
Education/sanctions/Encouraging behaviors/etc... ?

How about some "community service" targeted to tackle common issues like train littering? (ie forcing minor criminals to clean the trains).

But then people would feel "allowed/encouraged" to put dirt everywhere...

How about forcing civilians to report on abusers? But then it's a strange society, a bit like here... reporting to the agency some noise issues, etc...

We have technology to capture images, etc... a small change of law and it's doable...
but not the best maybe.


How about, when seats are "nominated", some kind of "inspection" prior/after seating, like a "flat handover" (but then it's sloooow, etc...)

Let's try other doable thing.

You've taken my comments a little out of context or too literally, I used the litter case merely as an example. Your other suggestions are also all entirely possible, I believe that education is a major part of the sollution, deterent or punishment alone won't be sufficient.

Carlos R 05.08.2011 17:50

Re: What to do so people stop hating the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrus (Post 1289813)
As to the littering on trains, I think putting back the bins would be a good start.

Nope. Won't change anything. I manage to travel throughout the world without (knowingly :o) littering. It is about what you accept and what you don't. I don't accept littering myself (or anyone that I am responsible for) however am too much of a coward to confront people I see littering. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirfield (Post 1289814)
I once got a clip round the ear with a policeman's glove for smiling as I walked round a corner.

Never did me no 'arm :msncrazy:

You sure about that? Now I know why you have that tick everytime you go round a corner...


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