Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada (previously ZH and GE)
Posts: 259
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 135 Times in 65 Posts
Marz is considered knowledgeableMarz is considered knowledgeableMarz is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I agree not all those in poverty turn into rioters some are trying to fight an already very difficult system to get out of the shit holes they live in. Have you tried living on benefits?

Only education and opportunities for real jobs can sort these places out.

I bet if you asked any person on those estates if they wanted a high profile job and were they willing to work for it they'd bite your hand off. You'd be pretty pissed off if you saw no way out and you were in a nasty cycle of poverty.

Poverty breeds poverty and I can only expect more rioting as the Tories and their banker mates refresh their bank accounts over the next few years.

What they did to the education system recently was disgusting. I would have loved to see Tory HQ burn to the ground. It would have sent a clear signal that the masses would not stand for these people preserving their own interests.

Problem is all parties are of the same cut these days in the UK. We're becoming the US rapidly with no political choices effectively run by corporations and banks.

A few shops being looted is nothing in comparison to the plague the tories have introduced into the education system.

A couple of weeks to sort the mess out in London is not comparable to the 50 years worth of damage the government has just created.

I'm glad people riot for these causes and the more it happens the better, politicans are so detatched from real people they need a reminder now and again.

A policeman holds an oath to uphold the peace they are not free to shoot individuals at will or carry out dubious checks at will etc.

I worked an an employment trainer with people on benefits and unfortunately very very few of them were interested in getting off benefits. I would help them with CVs, interview questions, found them open positions, care more than they did. They could have had jobs, but didn't bother showing up at interviews because they didn't feel like waking up early. One woman who got a job, quit after a week, because she saw a rat at the train station from where she was commuting...
The following 8 users would like to thank Marz for this useful post:
  #182  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:15
KB88111
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
As mentioned as well, it is not really any one incident but rather general social malaise that is causing this. Pressure has been building for 40 years and now it is being let off.

The UK government need to understand that they can't just disenfranchise people without there being implications. Those implications are being expressed by the current social pressure valve.
ah like their forefathers who spent their energy trying to address the perceived imbalance?

Wikipedia reference-linkJarrow_March

Simply put, the behaviour of these people is inexcusable.
  #183  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:15
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
There's some sort of organization behind that, this has been picked outside Dalston Argos:
These types of information are common now. As the police have been cracking down on every sort of protester for the last 15 years, ligitimate or not, this sort of thing has become common place. To find out how many people think, I would suggest watching a film on YouTube called "Taking Liberties".

Quote:
View Post
I vote to cancel every single social and sporting event until these s stop what they're doing.
I don't think they are going to respond to this sort of treatment. It will just inflame the situation. Negotiation is what is needed. Engage rather than try punative punishments.

Quote:
View Post
After that, I propose military service for anyone who has been unemployed since their father's birth.
I don't agree with military service. Sorry for being slightly blunt but this warmongering bullshit has to stop.
Social service would be a great idea though, but it has been shown that the country can simply not afford it.
__________________
Living it up in Gersau.
  #184  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:18
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Do you really think that these are the same people? They are not, not even related issues!
I am not making exuses for them, I am saying that the government need to take accountability for some of the problem as well. Do you really believe that the UK government is completely blameless in this situation?
  #185  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:21
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Do you really think that these are the same people? They are not, not even related issues!
I am not making exuses for them, I am saying that the government need to take accountability for some of the problem as well. Do you really believe that the UK government is completely blameless in this situation?
Well erm which government?
  #186  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:21
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Negotiation is what is needed. Engage rather than try punative punishments.

what how do you talk to and reason with young adults who are shitting in there own beds?? the whole reason we have got to where we are is because a stern talking to doesn't work.

Just what are you supposed to offer them in these negotiations? then what happens 12 months down the line when they decide they want something more, or the next generation of scum come online.
  #187  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:34
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Well erm which government?
I don't know, clearly the Lichtenstein government.

The UK government obviously. I don't particularly think any specific itteration or party is more or less to blame than the others, but if you really want to point fingers at specific groups, feel free, I just don't think it contributes anything to the current situation.

Quote:
View Post
what how do you talk to and reason with young adults who are shitting in there own beds?? the whole reason we have got to where we are is because a stern talking to doesn't work.

Just what are you supposed to offer them in these negotiations? then what happens 12 months down the line when they decide they want something more, or the next generation of scum come online.
And more violence against them is clearly the answer because that has been working so well?

So maybe as I was trying to point out earlier, it just has to burn itself out.
  #188  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:34
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 3,979
Groaned at 99 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I worked an an employment trainer with people on benefits and unfortunately very very few of them were interested in getting off benefits. I would help them with CVs, interview questions, found them open positions, care more than they did.
How DARE you show up here with your informed opinion and all that "fancy dan" experience and expertise??? It makes me mad when people who know what they are talking about come round here trying to brainwash us all with facts and everything....

Just let us carry on reading the Daily Mail and repeating the stuff we find there and revelling in our own homespun wisdom, would ya??
The following 5 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #189  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:38
KB88111
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Do you really think that these are the same people? They are not, not even related issues!
I am not making exuses for them, I am saying that the government need to take accountability for some of the problem as well. Do you really believe that the UK government is completely blameless in this situation?
Hang on, the government has not forced these people to leave their homes and go riot.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-in-real-time/

I think the Egyptians sum it up brilliantly:
Quote:
Egyptians and Tunisians took revenge for Khaled Said and Bouazizi by peacefully toppling their murdering regimes, not stealing DVD players.
With the Jarrow folk, you see the approach of the "Have Nots" of 3 generations ago who peacefully delivered their message. I bet many of these rioters just wanted to come along for the thrill of it - like the students earlier in the year.

They have no excuse, they have no dignity. They simply show what animals civilised people appear to have become.
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #190  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:38
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I don't know, clearly the Lichtenstein government.

The UK government obviously. I don't particularly think any specific itteration or party is more or less to blame than the others, but if you really want to point fingers at specific groups, feel free, I just don't think it contributes anything to the current situation.

I was merely asking "sarc free" if you like, whether you considered it the fault of the present government and its cuts in spending, or the previous government and its failed bank bail out and spend out of the problem policy that brought us to the present problem.

Last edited by Slaphead; 09.08.2011 at 10:51. Reason: Fixed quote syntax
  #191  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:57
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I was merely asking "sarc free" if you like, whether you considered it the fault of the present government and its cuts in spending, or the previous government and its failed bank bail out and spend out of the problem policy that brought us to the present problem.
In that case, sarcasm retracted...he-he.

Nope, I don't think that any specific government is more or less culpable. Labour gave them too much leeway while removing everybody's liberties, as they are want from a philosophical standpoint while the conservatives seem to not help either by being very biased towards the economy rather than the environment and zeitgeist of the country, not understanding that the two are linked.

I don't believe that any of them have good answers and that is a huge proportion of the reason that I left the country.
  #192  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
Anyone involved in criminality should be under no illusion that we will pursue you.
That just about sums it up.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #193  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:02
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
That just about sums it up.

HEY, wait a minute. How come I can`t find her on the Community members list then??????
The following 2 users would like to thank grumpygit for this useful post:
  #194  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:04
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Hang on, the government has not forced these people to leave their homes and go riot.
I agree and did not say that they did. The point that I am trying to make is that the government did not spot that it was going to happen and take preventative measures to ensure that people don't behave like this.

Quote:
View Post
They have no excuse, they have no dignity. They simply show what animals civilised people appear to have become.
No excuse, no, you are right. But neither has the government.
No dignity, no, you are right again, but then dignity is something that has to work both ways. Personally I feel that a lot of their dignity has been taken away from them by society and now they feel justified acting in this way.
Yes, they are showing what happens when people don't care enough to make sure that it does not happen.

I am trying to say that we cannot just blame the rioters. This situation is symptomatic of the malaise in our whole society. There is a cancer rotting away somewhere and as we know, cancer generally has a cause. Be that cause justified or not does not effect the treatment but should indicate strongly how we can avoid the situation in the first place.
__________________
Living it up in Gersau.
This user would like to thank colinwheeler for this useful post:
  #195  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:04
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I feel physically sick about all this. These people are burning down where I grew up. I propose non- military national service, the kind you cant get out of, for everyone from 17 to 19. Immediately.
  #196  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:05
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
That just about sums it up.
As long as the police are held to the same standards.
  #197  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:05
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,191
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,781 Times in 704 Posts
ceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
That just about sums it up.
Except that it takes months to bring the cases to court and the prisons are already full of repeat offenders having a better time there than many struggling small shopkeepers in the general community.
  #198  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:06
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I feel physically sick about all this. These people are burning down where I grew up. I propose non- military national service, the kind you cant get out of, for everyone from 17 to 19. Immediately.
Great idea. The country can't afford it financially though. Possibly though, they can't afford not to do it socially.
  #199  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:09
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
As long as the police are held to the same standards.
Quote:
View Post
Except that it takes months to bring the cases to court and the prisons are already full of repeat offenders having a better time there than many struggling small shopkeepers in the general community.
I think you chaps may want to reread the post...............
The following 2 users would like to thank grumpygit for this useful post:
  #200  
Old 09.08.2011, 10:09
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Great idea. The country can't afford it financially though. Possibly though, they can't afford not to do it socially.
It pays for itself. They do work in old people's homes and pick up litter and do leadership stuff for young kids and do all sorts of things we wish we could afford to employ more people for.
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tunisia uprising/riots Pashosh International affairs/politics 30 02.11.2011 22:12
Tottenham-Inter in Lucerne tonight CS_owns_Zurich_n_me Entertainment & dining 8 02.11.2010 22:51
Tottenham play with Young Boys Mikeybroomers Football/sports 35 26.08.2010 13:22
Young Boys v Tottenham travel Sherer4 Travel/day trips/free time 0 12.08.2010 15:55
Greek Riots 2008 - Agent Provocateur Cops Caught Red Handed jrspet International affairs/politics 3 05.01.2009 22:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0