View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs) |
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots
|    | 4 | 4.12% |
The riots are caused because of social injustice
|    | 9 | 9.28% |
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc
|    | 5 | 5.15% |
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity.
|    | 75 | 77.32% |
The riots are caused by too much immigration
|    | 4 | 4.12% |  | | | 
09.08.2011, 10:18
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Gersau
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | It pays for itself. They do work in old people's homes and pick up litter and do leadership stuff for young kids and do all sorts of things we wish we could afford to employ more people for. | | | | | It pays for itself over the long term (10 to 20 years, I would imagine), not just financially but also socially. However the establishment of such a system is immensely expensive up front and therefore the UK government does not currently have the facility to achieve it.
Now however if it were driven by the youth themselves.....that would most probably be a different story. People must want to contribute. I really saw this in military strategies as well as in South Africa during conscription but the phrase "one volunteer is worth ten conscripts" is very true.
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09.08.2011, 10:26
| | Re: The Tottenham Riots....
The Youth of the Middle East rise up for basic freedoms. The Youth of London rise up for a HD ready 42" Plasma TV
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09.08.2011, 10:28
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots....
London's population has doubled in the time I've been alive, and is now the same as the whole of Switzerland.
The place is simply overcrowded. The infrastructure, cannot cope with the number of people crowded into a relatively small place, and London is cracking at the seams.
There are horrible wealth -divides too, which there used not to be, with multi-millionaire football stars, Russian oligarchs, newly rich Chinese and Indians, buying up Kensington and Chelsea and driving their Ferraris around at full-throttle just to be seen and heard whilst, a few miles away, on the south-bank of the Thames, people are living cheek-by-jowl in crumbling properties, ripe for demolition, and having to send their kids to overcrowded failing schools.
This is still no excuse for the horrifying violence and looting going on, but I can feel the underlying tension more and more when I'm in London.
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09.08.2011, 10:28
| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | The Youth of the Middle East rise up for basic freedoms. The Youth of London rise up for a HD ready 42" Plasma TV | | | | | Nah. They both rise up because they're mindlessly angry and bored. 18 year olds typically don't have a political consciousness.
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09.08.2011, 10:30
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | It pays for itself. They do work in old people's homes and pick up litter and do leadership stuff for young kids and do all sorts of things we wish we could afford to employ more people for. | | | | |
but that's not how it would end up, sure the young people would be clearing the place up etc but the local council would then turn round and say if they are doing street cleaning etc then we don't need to, and sack the street cleaners, unions would be up in arms (as usual) and what about the ones who don't turn up? someone has to chase them up
Did you see the program in the uk where eddie jordan took a group of scum bags and gave them unreal opportunities to learn mechanics, build a race car and go racing etc, most of the group couldn't be bothered, didn't turn up, messed around, this was stuff a lot of 'normal' kids would have killed to do, the kind of thing that could have quite easily set them up for life, oh no, gotta get up before 1pm, no way mate
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09.08.2011, 10:30
| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | Nah. They both rise up because they're mindlessly angry and bored. 18 year olds typically don't have a political consciousness. | | | | | Regardless the protests in the middle east had a paragon of virtuosity about them. This is just mindless.
Last edited by porsch1909; 09.08.2011 at 10:44.
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09.08.2011, 10:32
| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | Regardless the protest in the middle east had a paragon of virtuoso about them. This is just mindless. | | | | | I suppose. I just want to put them all in a big Perspex box and fill it with hot bleach and see what happens.
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09.08.2011, 10:34
| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | I suppose. I just want to put them all in a big Perspex box and fill it with hot bleach and see what happens. | | | | | I'd go for concentrated sulphuric acid (96%) then add some 30% Hydrogen Peroxide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_solution | 
09.08.2011, 10:35
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | Regardless the protest in the middle east had a paragon of virtuoso about them. This is just mindless. | | | | | Agreed, I admired the way the protests in the ME were conducted; people handing the protestors food, restaurants opened their toilets for the public, wounded were transported away, people made way for ambulances, most of what I saw was admirably civil, they did in a short time what a hundred marketing campaigns couldn't.
I'd make a bet that if a bystander or rioter in London got injured that the mob would attack the ambulance too.
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09.08.2011, 10:36
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots....
No, you've got it wrong, the worst form of torture for this lot would be - having to actually work. Without their Blackberries in their pockets.
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09.08.2011, 10:36
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | London's population has doubled in the time I've been alive | | | | | While I agree with the sentiment of all of the rest of your post and that is why I left, I must question you on your claim of what your age is.
According to ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London), you are claiming to be born sometime between 1851 and 1891.
London's population is less today than it was between 1931 and 1961. And it has not been below five million since 1891.
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09.08.2011, 10:37
| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | No, you've got it wrong, the worst form of torture for this lot would be - having to actually work. Without their Blackberries in their pockets. | | | | | Nobody uses blackberries anymore...all iPhones...get with the times | 
09.08.2011, 10:38
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | While I agree with the sentiment of all of the rest of your post and that is why I left, I must question you on your claim of what your age is.
According to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London), you are claiming to be born sometime between 1851 and 1891.
London's population is less today than it was between 1931 and 1961. And it has not been below five million since 1891. | | | | | maybe she means greater london?
Last edited by grumpygit; 09.08.2011 at 10:46.
Reason: sorry ceppy
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09.08.2011, 10:38
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots....
The threshold to wanton destructiveness, looting, civil disobedience, etc., is not high enough to even trip over any more, and then of course, come "rights' and entitlement, then blaming it all on their parents, society, big business and the government... and they might even be right. Catch 22.
Junk food, junk education, junk parenting, junk media, junk entertainment, junk values, what do you expect other than GIGO?
It's worrisome because the junk population is growing exponentially, is good for junk business and is making junk rich people still richer.
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09.08.2011, 10:39
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots....
^Some say Android is the REAL thing now. Let's just say "smartphones", ok?
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09.08.2011, 10:40
| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | No, you've got it wrong, the worst form of torture for this lot would be - having to actually work. Without their Blackberries in their pockets. | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | Nobody uses blackberries anymore...all iPhones...get with the times  | | | | | Scrub that post http://mashable.com/2011/08/08/londo...rry-messenger/
London Riots: BlackBerry Messenger Used More than Facebook or Twitter
Maybe David 'just call me Dave' Cameron should do a Mubarak and close down mobile communication in the hotspots.
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09.08.2011, 10:44
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | While I agree with the sentiment of all of the rest of your post and that is why I left, I must question you on your claim of what your age is.
According to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London), you are claiming to be born sometime between 1851 and 1891.
London's population is less today than it was between 1931 and 1961. And it has not been below five million since 1891. | | | | | I'll accept a slight exaggeration.
I'm talking about inner London where the population in 1937 was around 4.5 million and I bet it's over 7 million now. Anyway, I can't get a seat on the bus, and that's all that counts | 
09.08.2011, 10:48
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots.... | Quote: | |  | | | maybe she means greater london? | | | | | Perhaps, but there is no definition of "Greater London" that has stood for any great time period of London and definitly not one where there has been a doubling of population in the area. I doubt there are many people that have been alive long enough to see a doubling of the English population.
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09.08.2011, 10:50
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| | Re: The Tottenham Riots....
Probably the roots of malaise are the same in ME, UK and Spain youth (indignado) but the expression of that malaise is completely different. Certainly frustration, anger and despair lead to violence. The different form of violence could be explained by the fact that in ME & Spain youth was fighting to get its dignity back (dignity is a word often heard in ME & spain demonstration). I think in UK the youth is in front of a wall in terms of communication. The violence of british youth just mirrors the violence of UK government with budget cuts and how it was communicated to the population.
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