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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #241  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:19
economisto
 
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I just read that the Wetherspoons in Woolwich was set ablaze. For those of you who think this is a result of politics and spending cuts then where is the sense or logic in that?
Have you actually been to a wetherspoons?
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  #242  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:19
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Generally this is an incredible ineffective and short termist way to police. To effectively wage war on huge tracts of the community tends not to solve much. However perhaps this is an exception.

it may have stopped numerous small businesses being wiped out, peoples houses being burnt out, and peoples pride and joys being torched.

sorry but standing around it riot gear with video cameras just doesn't bother the feral youth.
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  #243  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:24
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Generally this is an incredible ineffective and short termist way to police. To effectively wage war on huge tracts of the community tends not to solve much. However perhaps this is an exception.
I think crediting them with any sense of community, aside from, 'we is all muthufunking Gs, innit', is incredibly generous.
  #244  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:24
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Generally this is an incredible ineffective and short termist way to police. To effectively wage war on huge tracts of the community tends not to solve much. However perhaps this is an exception.
They'd have to combine it with a bit of strategy but tear gas certainly dulls your senses - I've come across tear gas and it's very unpleasant. Do you think a voice of reason within the community could help?
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  #245  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:24
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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it may have stopped numerous small businesses being wiped out, peoples houses being burnt out, and peoples pride and joys being torched.

sorry but standing around it riot gear with video cameras just doesn't bother the feral youth.
No doubt. My brother watched from his balcony over Camden Lock last night as Tweens with petrol bombs marauded through the streets. There needs to be a city wide curfew tomorrow coupled with police with plastic bullets. They also need to commandeer some lockups and warehouses to house the arrests.
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  #246  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:25
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Nope no tear gas either from what I'm led to believe. Just riot shields and truncheons, plus the odd mounted policeman - that's it.
They also have loud hailers to tell them to disperse.
  #247  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:28
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Interesting comment article from today's Grauniad: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...not-unexpected
  #248  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:31
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Interesting comment article from today's Grauniad: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...not-unexpected
Not that interesting. These are children stealing cash in Camden and Birmingham. Nothing to do with anyone getting shot.
  #249  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:33
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Interesting comment article from today's Grauniad: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...not-unexpected
Was a pretty terrible article actually IMO
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  #250  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:33
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Agreed, I admired the way the protests in the ME were conducted; people handing the protestors food, restaurants opened their toilets for the public, wounded were transported away, people made way for ambulances, most of what I saw was admirably civil, they did in a short time what a hundred marketing campaigns couldn't.

I'd make a bet that if a bystander or rioter in London got injured that the mob would attack the ambulance too.
That's because what happened in the Middle East was actually protest based.

Anyone who thinks that the violence of last night was some sort of protest needs their head examined. There's no 'cause' that these idiots are fighting for, there's no issue that can be addressed to stop their antisocial behaviour.

It's purely and simply a case of the social disintergration that has been going on in Britain for more than a decade finally 'bearing fruit' as it were.

Anyone who has a bit of experience of how increasingly out of control certain sections of British society have got in recent times - i.e. chavvy youths being allowed free reign to do what they want whilst the rest of society looks the other way - will know what I mean. The only thing that has changed is that a catalyst has caused them to coalesce and practice their antisocial behaviour as a mob instead of individuals.
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  #251  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:38
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Im getting fed up with the Police getting it each time in the neck.
They do a thankless job, are paid little more than the minimum for the pleasure of facing up to crims day in day out.
Anytime something goes wrong its their fault. Well to those that seek to blame the police then just imagine for one day, the Police decide they don`t like the job anymore and you can easily imagine the destruction of society.
The Police couldn`t respond to Duggans family due to the IPCC investigating the shooting , ie making sure their officers behaved correctly, and that was explained to the family. Whether the shooting was justified or not will come out in the enquiry, it shouldnt be influenced by a police statement beforehand and I believe the family knew that.
In any case, that Thin Blue Line is all that stands between us and anarchy and we should do well not to push it too hard from the other side.
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  #252  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:40
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

to me, it also shows the lack of community - not from the side of the protesters, but from the 'victims'. after a long period of centralising power and having voters increasingly detached and powerless to affect their lives, neighbourhoods have become a group of strangers rather than a cohesive community.

i'd be surprised if the looters could get away with it, if they tried this on in, say, a jewish quarter of the city - where there are stronger communities.

there are voices for more local government and i hope that these measures will be pushed through to decentralise power and put local communities in charge of local issues.
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  #253  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:42
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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That's because what happened in the Middle East was actually protest based.

Anyone who thinks that the violence of last night was some sort of protest needs their head examined. There's no 'cause' that these idiots are fighting for, there's no issue that can be addressed to stop their antisocial behaviour.

It's purely and simply a case of the social disintergration that has been going on in Britain for more than a decade finally 'bearing fruit' as it were.

Anyone who has a bit of experience of how increasingly out of control certain sections of British society have got in recent times - i.e. chavvy youths being allowed free reign to do what they want whilst the rest of society looks the other way - will know what I mean. The only thing that has changed is that a catalyst has caused them to coalesce and practice their antisocial behaviour as a mob instead of individuals.
Do you think that the western world is going to get a 'Western Spring'

Tie this in with the way the stock markets are going in the US and the way the Tea party must have disenfranchised a lot of the lower classes in the US with the debt ceiling debate
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  #254  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:42
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Was a pretty terrible article actually IMO

Sorry it wasn't to your liking. What interested me was the perspective showing how the family of the shot guy was (alledgedly) handled by the police. I certainly wouldn't see that as any sort of justification for the subsequent rioting.

Still, if you're all intent on slamming everyone involved in the rioting without wishing to hear any other perspective, who am I to interfere. As you were....
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  #255  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:44
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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In any case, that Thin Blue Line is all that stands between us and anarchy and we should do well not to push it too hard from the other side.
Do not taint the anarchists with the riots. The events you see unfolding are the products of ineffective Government and oppressive Laws, not of true anarchists.
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  #256  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:45
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Do not taint the anarchists with the riots. The events you see unfolding are the products of ineffective Government and oppressive Laws, not of true anarchists.
Spoken like a true anarchist
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  #257  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:47
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Sorry it wasn't to your liking. What interested me was the perspective showing how the family of the shot guy was (alledgedly) handled by the police. I certainly wouldn't see that as any sort of justification for the subsequent rioting.

Still, if you're all intent on slamming everyone involved in the rioting without wishing to hear any other perspective, who am I to interfere. As you were....
Everyone is slamming the rioters and looters. Nobody slammed the peaceful protesters.
  #258  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:47
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Other countries are having some fun.

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Iran called for London police to exercise self-restraint in dealing with protesters in Tottenham, north of London. Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast referred to Saturday night's massive protests in Tottenham, which came following [the killing] of a young black man by Scotland Yard police and called for the UK government to avoid any police's harsh treatment with protesters. He stressed return of peace and calm to London through talks and examining demands of the demonstrators. Mehmanparast expressed hope independent human rights bodies would take measures to make clear facts behind murder of the black man soon.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14456635
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  #259  
Old 09.08.2011, 11:52
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Bad case of lastworditis there colin the link is
www.london.gov.uk/
and you dont need wiki anything to know what the GLC is.
You really are your name. Perhaps you can go back and read over my point which was not that there is or is not a GLC or what it is but rather the period of time that is has existed and the specific point that during the timeline of living people right now, there has been no single Greater London authority or council or single defintion of the area that has seen the doubling of a population.
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Old 09.08.2011, 11:56
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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You really are your name. Perhaps you can go back and read over my point which was not that there is or is not a GLC or what it is but rather the period of time that is has existed and the specific point that during the timeline of living people right now, there has been no single Greater London authority or council or single defintion of the area that has seen the doubling of a population.
My misunderstanding, it must have been the lack of abbreviation
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