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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #401  
Old 10.08.2011, 00:31
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Remove benefits and starve the people already living below the breadline ?

...and achieve what ?
I can't call the police pigs, they have a tough job, I wouldn't put it past the conservatives to cut all benefits and put the police out as foot soldiers to deal with it. They are already considering water cannons, rubber bullets, gas- sounds more like civil war to me- a bit like Northern Ireland.
  #402  
Old 10.08.2011, 00:34
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I can't call the police pigs, they have a tough job, I wouldn't put it past the conservatives to cut all benefits and put the police out as foot soldiers to deal with it. They are already considering water cannons, rubber bullets, gas- sounds more like civil war to me- a bit like Northern Ireland.
The Met, the Police, two different organisations if you ask me.

Rubber bullets, tear gas and water cannon were issued to the Police in NI to protect the Police and the Army in NI. When I lived there, it was not wanton violence or mindless looting, it was directed focused rage at "Foreign occupiers". A completely different situation to today. It was not Civil War in Northern Ireland, it was an indigenous rebellion to a foreign occupying military force. despite what the maps and political boundaries said at the time.

Last edited by Upthehatters2008; 10.08.2011 at 00:45.
  #403  
Old 10.08.2011, 00:46
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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The Met have lauded themselves above the law and now act on their own. Those people on those estates know too well how the Met work, this time was a step too far. These pigs deserve the ire of the local population, the rioters have obviously sent a message, echoed by all the other cities. The whole rioting issues goes far deeper, a complete dissatisfaction with Police tactics and procedure.
So stealing flat screen TVs and torching shops that belong to people that have nothing to do whatsoever with the Met is a valid statement of dissatisfaction with said Met?

Interesting.

Uth, do you have a TV perchance? I am rather dissatisfied with my boss, and I wish him to send him a message. Let me know when I can collect it. If you can't be there, I won't impose on your busy schedule - I'll assume I can just pick it up.
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  #404  
Old 10.08.2011, 00:47
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Police could use rubber bullets. An Army unit based in Glasgow has been put on standby:

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  #405  
Old 10.08.2011, 00:51
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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So stealing flat screen TVs and torching shops that belong to people that have nothing to do whatsoever with the Met is a valid statement of dissatisfaction with said Met?

Interesting.

Uth, do you have a TV perchance? I am rather dissatisfied with my boss, and I wish him to send him a message. Let me know when I can collect it. If you can't be there, I won't impose on your busy schedule - I'll assume I can just pick it up.
The facts are staring you in the face. Looting and stealing and rioting have long been the tools of a dissatisfied population. Like it or not, shit happens. Prison doesn't solve crime, CCTV doesn't stop crime, yet they continue to be used. Rioting doesn't solve the issues at hand , but it does send a clear message of discontent to the powers that be. If they had guns , courts and jails, the whole effing Government would be in there. They do what they can, how they can. Logic went out the window when their voice was removed or ignored. Do not expect an educated response from an uneducated crowd.
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  #406  
Old 10.08.2011, 01:31
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....



It looks like some of the rioters bit off a bit more than they could chew when they rolled into Whitechapel just as the local lads were breaking their fasts...
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  #407  
Old 10.08.2011, 01:40
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

My favourite bit is at the 30s mark



Mark Stone has some guts

  #408  
Old 10.08.2011, 01:53
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Stafford Scott, a community leader, has also reported that the gun said to have been found at the scene "was found in a sock meaning it wasn't prepared for action".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nt-mark-duggan

Could it have been a mistake- false information?

It seems to be a mixture of criminality, poverty, unemployment, raised Uni fees, lack of education, racial tension ( between the Met and citizens) teenagers on cheap supermarket booze and the last straw perhaps cutbacks in services (which have yet to be fully implemented this was just the beginning)

What happened to manufacturing in the UK? Some of these unemployed in the UK are skilled labourers such as bricklayers or painters who can't get jobs. How can a country be top heavy with bureaucracy- government and banking, when it isn't producing anything. Isn't that a kind of false economy?

I haven't phoned my sisters yet, but my sister-in-law says that Blackberrys are down.
  #409  
Old 10.08.2011, 03:26
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Not everybody who posts on the EF is from Britain, but a good percentage happens to be. For those of you who are or used to be British, try this exercise. Go to the Complaints forum and look at the thread titles. Now go and look at footage of the riots. CH doesn't seem so bad anymore now, does it?
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  #410  
Old 10.08.2011, 07:38
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I'm playing the Devil's Advocate here but now we have seen what happened then wouldn't it be cheaper and safer to just pay these chavs and hoodies so they can buy what they want in the form of electronic gear, bling jewellry, watches, iPhones, iPads and sports gear? Think of the damage and what trade will be lost and what it will cost to clean things up and the cost to the public in policing and I am guessing it will add up to 1000 GBP per charver so why not just give them the money so they are happy and don't cause trouble? They may even stop mugging people. Think of how much safer it would feel on the streets. It might give them all a sense of purpose and pride in serving their community.
  #411  
Old 10.08.2011, 08:05
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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The facts are staring you in the face. Looting and stealing and rioting have long been the tools of a dissatisfied population. Like it or not, shit happens. Prison doesn't solve crime, CCTV doesn't stop crime, yet they continue to be used. Rioting doesn't solve the issues at hand , but it does send a clear message of discontent to the powers that be. If they had guns , courts and jails, the whole effing Government would be in there. They do what they can, how they can. Logic went out the window when their voice was removed or ignored. Do not expect an educated response from an uneducated crowd.
Haha. The Greeks were rather discontent as of late but not much looting happened as I recall. No looting in Madrid either, although the number of indignados was an order of magnitude higher than the "dissatisfied British population" in for a free lunch. Or is it because the British population is "less educated"?
  #412  
Old 10.08.2011, 08:54
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Haha. The Greeks were rather discontent as of late but not much looting happened as I recall. No looting in Madrid either, although the number of indignados was an order of magnitude higher than the "dissatisfied British population" in for a free lunch. Or is it because the British population is "less educated"?
Google the word "chav" you'll get your answer the UK is full of them. Poor schooling system, no job prospects and must have the latest gear.

Usually people work for this stuff, seems a few have taken a more direct route of obtaining the goods..
  #413  
Old 10.08.2011, 09:07
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Usually people work for this stuff, seems a few have taken a more direct route of obtaining the goods..
Really? I thought it was the other way around.

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Just so we know, here's the political manifesto behind the violence.
And we thought Little Britain was a spoof.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424


These people are feral.

Quite frankly, I'm tired of the police restraint. Full action, no-holds-barred response with harshest penalties possible for these criminals.

Make no mistake these people are now criminals first. There is no excuse for this behaviour and it needs to be crushed ruthlessly. Deal with the causes (and there are many) later.
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  #414  
Old 10.08.2011, 09:18
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I found this blog/article quite interesting:

http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08...of-london.html
  #415  
Old 10.08.2011, 09:20
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Haha. The Greeks were rather discontent as of late but not much looting happened as I recall. No looting in Madrid either, although the number of indignados was an order of magnitude higher than the "dissatisfied British population" in for a free lunch. Or is it because the British population is "less educated"?
In a supermarket in Barcelona recently we found that anything over EUR 10 seemed to have a security tag attached - even cheeses There were plenty of security guards around in every store so i'm sure there is quite a lot of theft.

I couldn't believe they would put security tags on cheese but it seems that Tesco in the UK has done it too http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddr...recession.html They are on Cathedral City cheddar too :-)
  #416  
Old 10.08.2011, 09:24
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I think I mentioned in an earlier post that we could expect to see the BNP sending out their representatives soon, and the good news is they were on Sky this morning. They will garner huge support from this and the only people that will lose is the minorities.That is going to be the long term knock on effect of these riots.
  #417  
Old 10.08.2011, 09:29
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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It looks like some of the rioters bit off a bit more than they could chew when they rolled into Whitechapel just as the local lads were breaking their fasts...
Great read, I was already wondering why there wasn't any reaction from the locals that got their property trashed, but people getting on the street any preventing looters from destroying their property is the only appropriate response.
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  #418  
Old 10.08.2011, 10:00
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I watched BBC last night, I thought they did a superb job covering, especially inviting young people, smart students, rappers, old cops..It was obvious that some speakers don't get the nature of these protests, or just populistically market themselves. I thought it is not just simpleton criminals who would do this anytime they'd have chance since they do not respect police. Things seem a lot more complicated, and it is not only in the UK. It won't get better if kids don't get a space to talk about this. The saddest thing about the whole thing is, they really are teens, mostly, aren't they. Desperation, cry for structure that would give them a chance to succeed, seems like an attempt to find boundaries that no longer exist..
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  #419  
Old 10.08.2011, 10:09
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I watched BBC last night, I thought they did a superb job covering, especially inviting young people, smart students, rappers, old cops..It was obvious that some speakers don't get the nature of these protests, or just populistically market themselves. I thought it is not just simpleton criminals who would do this anytime they'd have chance since they do not respect police. Things seem a lot more complicated, and it is not only in the UK. It won't get better if kids don't get a space to talk about this. The saddest thing about the whole thing is, they really are teens, mostly, aren't they. Desperation, cry for structure that would give them a chance to succeed, seems like an attempt to find boundaries that no longer exist..
I would have to respectfully disagree, to me that whole thinking is why this has happened, it not there fault, talk to them, mother them, spend etc etc, these people don't want to change, as I said earlier on this thread if your unemployed in the uk then you qualify for free education, free evening classes, re-training etc etc a good mechanic will never be unemployed, an good plumber, electrician, plasterer, painter etc etc will never be unemployed so there is no reason at all someone from one of these areas cannot get off there arses and make something of themselves, but sitting around watching tv, smoking, drinking, reproducing and bitching about bankers is much easier.
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  #420  
Old 10.08.2011, 10:12
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I watched BBC last night, I thought they did a superb job covering, especially inviting young people, smart students, rappers, old cops..It was obvious that some speakers don't get the nature of these protests, or just populistically market themselves. I thought it is not just simpleton criminals who would do this anytime they'd have chance since they do not respect police. Things seem a lot more complicated, and it is not only in the UK. It won't get better if kids don't get a space to talk about this. The saddest thing about the whole thing is, they really are teens, mostly, aren't they. Desperation, cry for structure that would give them a chance to succeed, seems like an attempt to find boundaries that no longer exist..
I bet the looter that was stealing from the rucksack of the other injured looter as shown on Sky actually hates himself for doing that and really wants to be a teacher if only circumstances were different ..............
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