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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #461  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:33
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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One thing has struck me, reading all the reports and watching the footage: the participants in the looting all seem to be native-born British; the victims of the looting seem to be, in many cases, immigrants.

Perhaps some of those who bang on about immigration might want to take a minute to look into who is causing the trouble here, and who is at the rough end of it.

Povertyandeprivation is just a cheap excuse. There are other factors at work here: cultural and social factors which need to be addressed, and addressed soon.

Goodness knows how, though.
I've noticed the same thing, but didn't dare to write it down. I bet that soon after everything will be cleaned and repaired in the streets as nothing ever happened, and the Daily Mail type of newspapers will restore to their usual catastrophic predictions on immigrants and those awful uncivil Eastern Europeans who'll come in waves to take over and ruin the otherwise perfectly well doing country...
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  #462  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:35
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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The whole system is a catastrophe.
Absolutely spot on. One of the most sensible posts on this thread so far.

You can blame it on violent PC games, rap music - there is no right answer. But the breakdown of family structure and values has a huge part to play.

Kids follow their parents example - if you're born to a single mother on benefits, chances are that it will be a vicious cycle. What values do you learn besides depending on the government handouts, with no concept of an honest day's work?? With no inputs of your own into society, how will you learn to respect the world you live in if you have absolutely nothing going for you?

I'm probably gonna get groans for this but I'll say it anyway: the politically correctness of it all, its welfare system, feckless fathers, the culture of young mothers and not disciplining your children properly has led to accepting zero responsibility for their lives and actions, the lack of respect for authority, public property, and most importantly, others. *jumps off soap box*
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  #463  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:36
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Could it be, perhaps, that this isn't actually a protest at all, but rather a free-for-all crime spree with sinister racial overtones?
Quite possible, hate and anger will take the path of least resistance. I don't think anyone here could suggest this is a rational response. Then again, a pressure cooker of society's ills will have unpredictable results. Let's not look at what is happening, but why it happened.
  #464  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:37
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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So, to return to my earlier point, which seems to be blithely ignored by press and forum alike: if these young British thugs are so angry with the Metropolitan police, why are they making all the effort to go to Somali, Bangladeshi and Kurdish districts to go a-looting, instead of hopping on the tube and nipping down to New Scotland Yard or Westminster to make their feelings known?

Could it be, perhaps, that this isn't actually a protest at all, but rather a free-for-all crime spree with sinister racial overtones?
it's more a melting pot because those ones arent' that "whitey":


Altough it's fair to say lot of people are taking parts in those events (blacks, whites, yellow, etc...) but it's for various reasons.
- Racism
- Community
- "gansgtality"
- pack reaction
- criminals
- idiots
- government abuses
- getting freebies
- unemployment
- jealousy
- end of a social model based on "leaders" and feed by medium classes
- Stupid "community" system leading to racism, discrimination in both ways
- lack of integrations
- Too much migrations
- etc...

Your attacks are probably caused by a few of the above.
  #465  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:37
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

It's all to do with board games and happy house music. Playing cluedo with no parental guidance or commentary is what leads modern kids to try and evade the police.
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  #466  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:38
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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So, to return to my earlier point, which seems to be blithely ignored by press and forum alike: if these young British thugs are so angry with the Metropolitan police, why are they making all the effort to go to Somali, Bangladeshi and Kurdish districts to go a-looting, instead of hopping on the tube and nipping down to New Scotland Yard or Westminster to make their feelings known?

Could it be, perhaps, that this isn't actually a protest at all, but rather a free-for-all crime spree with sinister racial overtones?
The Kurdish, Somali and Bengali districts escaped most of the looting, because the local "communities" took measures to defend themselves
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  #467  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:39
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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During the Sharpsville Massacre , I can't remember any hi-fis and sports shops being turned over ....

You won't find those in a shit poor shanty town.


Sharpeville was a peaceful organised protest remember. Your analogy is away off the mark.
  #468  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:41
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I'm probably gonna get groans for this but I'll say it anyway: the politically correctness of it all, its welfare system, feckless fathers, the culture of young mothers and not disciplining your children properly has led to accepting zero responsibility for their lives and actions, the lack of respect for authority, public property, and most importantly, others. *jumps off soap box*
Now, to compare: Bangladeshi communities (for example), tend to be equally disadvantaged, but families tend to be more cohesive, children are very effectively (if sometimes rather harshly) disciplined, many members adhere to a strict moral code and there is a cultural emphasis on the acquisition of wealth by hard work.

When was the last time we saw gangs of Bangladeshi youths travelling around London to go on looting sprees?

Something is desperately wrong with the English.
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  #469  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:43
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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it's more a melting pot because those ones arent' that "whitey"
What has colour to do with this?

My point still stands: most (perhaps all?) of the rioters are native-born British. Many of the victims of their 'away-day' looting are immigrants.
  #470  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:44
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Damm, this thread is going to chew my posting quota up.
  #471  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:44
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Something is desperately wrong with the English.
If I had my way from Day 1, it would have been an imposed curfew, water canons out, and stripping these culprits off their benefits.

Not shuffling your feet coming home from your holidays as mayor and Prime Minister when half of London is burning down.
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  #472  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:44
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Quite possible, hate and anger will take the path of least resistance. I don't think anyone here could suggest this is a rational response. Then again, a pressure cooker of society's ills will have unpredictable results. Let's not look at what is happening, but why it happened.
Why it happened: rioting is fun and looting gets you something for nothing.

Simples.
  #473  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:45
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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The Kurdish, Somali and Bengali districts escaped most of the looting, because the local "communities" took measures to defend themselves
Very good example of what is "communities": Nice way to disintegrate a working country into many different ones, causing even more possibilities of clashes.


Now yes they had to do something because the police is not capable of dealing with the situation, as it the whole legal system (because remember policemen are public servant, at the front end of the legal system, they are not judges).

But:

Instead of calling the police, make report, etc... where everyone should have the same chances, etc... we have:

a community acting to defend that community. Therefore there're outsiders to that community. They've internals set of moral and laws, and their own reactions/legal consequences.

Next time i'll complain to a Turkish hair dresser because of a commercial reason, he'll whistle and the community will come to defend him because I offended or "threatened the community"? What next?
...


I though we all had to comply with the law, same chances, same rules, etc...

Thank you "community system" for disintegrating a country even more.
  #474  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:47
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Very good example of what is "communities": Nice way to disintegrate a working country into many different ones, causing even more possibilities of clashes....

You're criticising people for looking out for their neighbours and friends?
  #475  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:47
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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What has colour to do with this?

My point still stands: most (perhaps all?) of the rioters are native-born British. Many of the victims of their 'away-day' looting are immigrants.
...and shop owners (Currys, Sony, Wetherspoons etc). I don't think the rioters were sending a commercial signal out. It is wanton violence, I don't think there is a specific social victim here. In the face of lawlessness, a chance to grab goods isn't going to be offset by the idiots actually choosing their victims carefully.

Then again, we cannot deny the racial issues already present, and given the chance of a white man looting a white mans shop or looting poorly defended "Paki" (sorry for the use of that word) shops, and you might start to get answers.
  #476  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:47
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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So, to return to my earlier point, which seems to be blithely ignored by press and forum alike: if these young British thugs are so angry with the Metropolitan police, why are they making all the effort to go to Somali, Bangladeshi and Kurdish districts to go a-looting, instead of hopping on the tube and nipping down to New Scotland Yard or Westminster to make their feelings known?

Could it be, perhaps, that this isn't actually a protest at all, but rather a free-for-all crime spree with sinister racial overtones?
The original protest was clearly directed at The Metropolitan Police. I think that the majority of the subsequent rioting has developed as much through media coverage/social media as anything else. The rioters have been jumping on the bandwagon because they don't have any originality of their own.

Perhaps there is some built in herding gene left over from thousands of years ago.
  #477  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:49
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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You won't find those in a shit poor shanty town.
Soweto has shops - or a least it did when I went there . Not exactly Luton High Street

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Sharpeville was a peaceful organised protest remember.
It was a protest ...

Exactly - that is precisely my point
Not just opportunistic looting and thuggery ....

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  #478  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:49
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Why it happened: rioting is fun and looting gets you something for nothing.

Simples.
So why not every weekend , in many more places. It's not that simple. hese issues never are. That's not to say half the idiots involved aren't simpletons but this whole event was not started just for fun. It may be turning out like that though.
  #479  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:49
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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...and shop owners (Currys, Sony, Wetherspoons etc). I don't think the rioters were sending a commercial signal out. It is wanton violence, I don't think there is a specific social victim here. In the face of lawlessness, a chance to grab goods isn't going to be offset by the idiots actually choosing their victims carefully.
Several groups made the effort to travel across London to specifically target certain areas populated by ethnic minorities (see my post about Whitechapel a few pages ago).

This cannot simply be excused as 'wanton violence'. These attacks were carefully targeted attempts by British-born youths to intimidate immigrant communities.
  #480  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:50
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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You're criticising people for looking out for their neighbours and friends?
No, but you are focusing to what you want to see only. I said:


Now yes they had to do something because the police is not capable of dealing with the situation, as it the whole legal system (because remember policemen are public servant, at the front end of the legal system, they are not judges).



In normal time, there's the UK's legal system to look out for the neighbors and friends. Not the "community".

And yes those events are unique and they had to do something, so we can't blame them for that in this very specific context
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