The Tottenham Riots.... - Page 26

bigblue2 · #**501** 10.08.2011, 11:59

	Quote:
	Indeed. But the fact remains that looting parties have deliberately travelled across London to get to districts populated by ethnic minorities, such as Whitechapel. Why?

because there own areas where looted out? because a small group had there own agenda and used the riots as a cover? because there where higher value items in whitechapel? could be any number of reasons

#**502** 10.08.2011, 12:00

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	But it sounds like you did. To me, you are saying these riots are planned and focused and nothing to do with being a spontaneous reaction to the Police shooting. Of course, you can correct me more precisely to avoid confusion.

Or you can stop building straw men arguments based on stuff I didn't say.

#**503** 10.08.2011, 12:01

	Quote:	bigblue2
	because a small group had there own agenda and used the riots as a cover?

That's what I reckon. Of course, the other possibilities might be true, too.

But as I said a couple of posts ago, I hope these events are remembered next time someone decides to lay all of Britain's problems at the feet of immigrants.

grumpygit · #**504** 10.08.2011, 12:01

sorry, I just had to

ceppych · #**505** 10.08.2011, 12:04

	Quote:
	Which bit? The fact that the kids are British, or the fact that many of their victims are Somali, Kurdish and Bangladeshi?

I'm not about to define 'Britishness' on a public forum.
A lynch-mob, alerted on their Blackberrys, might appear on my doorstep.
I'm convinced the thugs were out to steal any stuff they could get from any easy target. (although the cashpoints seem to have given them a bit of trouble)
They didn't have to show their passports to rob Dixons and Currys.

Upthehatters2008 · #**506** 10.08.2011, 12:05

	Quote:
	Or you can stop building straw men arguments based on stuff I didn't say.

From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related.

I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting.

If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight.

Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?

CorsebouTheReturn · #**507** 10.08.2011, 12:06

	Quote:	summerrain
	Come on, thats completely stretching it and you know it. Due to the lack of police resources, these communities stood up to protect themselves and their livelihoods because they have to as the times call for it. These are hardworking small business owners who have built their businesses from scratch and cannot stand against the onslaught like the bigger companies can. Imagine their lives being turned upside down because their only shop have been looted - completely and utterly different from the CEO of Currys and Tescos who are just probably sweating in their boardrooms. Why bring them down to the same level as those lawless thugs?

Yes I said it! In that context they were "right" (I said they had to do something as the police could not do anything).

But it's valid in that context only-

Now by stretching it, i'm wondering what could be a "community reaction". (I actually observed many bad reactions from "communities)

Ok so again here it was fine, but in some other contexts we are giving too much excuses to a "community reaction", sometimes simply not to "offend the community".

What I tried to say is, communities, in the way it's currently applied are dividing the society, not creating social integration.
I still have faith in communities "independence" or specificity but that only with a strict respect of the laws, etc... Nothing to excuse when the community try to applies culture, concepts, moral values, laws, from another country.

cannut · #**508** 10.08.2011, 12:07

Just like Vancouver,Toronto or Montreal`s annual riot festival

#**509** 10.08.2011, 12:08

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related. I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting. If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight. Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?

I don't! Are you crazy/trolling? Do you believe an 11 year old in Manchester nicking trainers even watches the news, never mind has heard of any shooting. No one believes these riots have anything to do with a shooting.

grumpygit · #**510** 10.08.2011, 12:09

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related. I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting. If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight. Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?

From the mouths of the blokes protesting Duggans slaying at the police station. After 5 hours we warned the police it would all kick off, we sent the women and kids home and then the riot started.

IMHO the looting came as an opportunistic move just as the students protest got hijacked earlier this year. So it can be said that the two are related but in a tenuous link.

Gav · #**511** 10.08.2011, 12:10

	Quote:	summerrain
	Come on, thats completely stretching it and you know it. Due to the lack of police resources, these communities stood up to protect themselves and their livelihoods because they have to as the times call for it. These are hardworking small business owners who have built their businesses from scratch and cannot stand against the onslaught like the bigger companies can. Imagine their lives being turned upside down because their only shop have been looted - completely and utterly different from the CEO of Currys and Tescos who are just probably sweating in their boardrooms. Why bring them down to the same level as those lawless thugs?

Looks like three people lost their lives trying to defend property after some chavscum moved them down in a car:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-14471405

	Quote:
	A 32-year-old man will be questioned on suspicion of murder after three men were run over and killed in Birmingham. A vehicle has been recovered after the incident at about 01:00 BST on Dudley Road, Winson Green. The men aged 31, 30 and 20 were taken to City Hospital where about 200 people from the Asian community gathered. It is not yet known if the deaths were linked to overnight rioting in the West Midlands. The father of one victim has paid tribute to his son. Tariq Jahan said son Haroon Jahan "had his whole life ahead of him". .. It is thought the men who died had just come out of a mosque and were protecting their neighbourhood at the time of the incident in Winson Green. .. West Midlands Police said: "Three men have died following a road collision in the Winson Green area of Birmingham which detectives are treating as murder. "Three men were taken to hospital where two later died from their injuries. A third man was in a critical condition but confirmed dead at around 6.30am. "West Midlands Police have launched a murder enquiry, arrested one man in connection with the incident and recovered a vehicle nearby which will be examined by forensics experts."

One nasty aftereffect of this trouble could be a rise in racism. If you read around forums in the UK there's a strong undercurrent of a belief that 'blacks' are overwhelmingly reponsible for the trouble. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of the BNP make political capital out of it.

#**512** 10.08.2011, 12:11

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?

Only in that w---ers like these will find any excuse to justify their criminal activities.

grumpygit · #**513** 10.08.2011, 12:11

	Quote:	Gav
	Looks like three people lost their lives trying to defend property after some chavscum moved them down in a car: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-14471405 One nasty aftereffect of this trouble could be a rise in racism. If you read around forums in the UK there's a strong undercurrent of a belief that 'blacks' are overwhelmingly reponsible for the trouble. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of the BNP make political capital out of it.

They already are ; BNP and EDL

Carlos R · #**514** 10.08.2011, 12:12

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?

To contradict some here, of course it has. It is the excuse or smokescreen if you will, used to spark what we've seen on the first day. Thereafter it has all but been forgotten.

That's the only link there is or ever will be...

#**515** 10.08.2011, 12:13

	Quote:	Gav
	I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of the BNP make political capital out of it.

Of course they will - if they haven't already.

Anything to avoid acknowledging the fact that this is a British problem, caused by British people.

cricketer · #**516** 10.08.2011, 12:17

Nothing whatever.
Opportunistic thieving. no more no less. scumbags all of them.

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related. I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting. If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight. Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?

#**517** 10.08.2011, 12:18

I've added a poll - just so that we know where we are with this.

Gav · #**518** 10.08.2011, 12:19

	Quote:	grumpygit
	From the mouths of the blokes protesting Duggans slaying at the police station. After 5 hours we warned the police it would all kick off, we sent the women and kids home and then the riot started. IMHO the looting came as an opportunistic move just as the students protest got hijacked earlier this year. So it can be said that the two are related but in a tenuous link.

Agreed that Duggans death and the widespread rioting across England are two completely separate issues.

But it is fair to say that the overall conduct of the Met (including what looks suspiciously like yet another attempt by themto cover up/distort the truth after a police killing) acted as the catalyst.

Traubert · #**519** 10.08.2011, 12:23

If Duggan's death was the primary cause, why did London not go up in flames when Menendez had a clip emptied in his head?

MathNut · #**520** 10.08.2011, 12:23

I've split the discussion of the circumstances surrounding Mark Duggan's death onto its own thread. Here it is:
Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police