Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #501  
Old 10.08.2011, 11:59
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
Indeed. But the fact remains that looting parties have deliberately travelled across London to get to districts populated by ethnic minorities, such as Whitechapel.

Why?

because there own areas where looted out? because a small group had there own agenda and used the riots as a cover? because there where higher value items in whitechapel? could be any number of reasons
  #502  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
But it sounds like you did. To me, you are saying these riots are planned and focused and nothing to do with being a spontaneous reaction to the Police shooting.

Of course, you can correct me more precisely to avoid confusion.
Or you can stop building straw men arguments based on stuff I didn't say.
  #503  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
because a small group had there own agenda and used the riots as a cover?
That's what I reckon. Of course, the other possibilities might be true, too.

But as I said a couple of posts ago, I hope these events are remembered next time someone decides to lay all of Britain's problems at the feet of immigrants.
  #504  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:01
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....



sorry, I just had to
This user would like to thank grumpygit for this useful post:
  #505  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,191
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,781 Times in 704 Posts
ceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond reputeceppych has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
Which bit? The fact that the kids are British, or the fact that many of their victims are Somali, Kurdish and Bangladeshi?
I'm not about to define 'Britishness' on a public forum.
A lynch-mob, alerted on their Blackberrys, might appear on my doorstep.
I'm convinced the thugs were out to steal any stuff they could get from any easy target. (although the cashpoints seem to have given them a bit of trouble)
They didn't have to show their passports to rob Dixons and Currys.
  #506  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:05
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,540
Groaned at 204 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
Or you can stop building straw men arguments based on stuff I didn't say.
From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related.

I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting.

If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight.

Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?
  #507  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,518
Groaned at 491 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Come on, thats completely stretching it and you know it.

Due to the lack of police resources, these communities stood up to protect themselves and their livelihoods because they have to as the times call for it. These are hardworking small business owners who have built their businesses from scratch and cannot stand against the onslaught like the bigger companies can. Imagine their lives being turned upside down because their only shop have been looted - completely and utterly different from the CEO of Currys and Tescos who are just probably sweating in their boardrooms.

Why bring them down to the same level as those lawless thugs?
Yes I said it! In that context they were "right" (I said they had to do something as the police could not do anything).

But it's valid in that context only-

Now by stretching it, i'm wondering what could be a "community reaction". (I actually observed many bad reactions from "communities)

Ok so again here it was fine, but in some other contexts we are giving too much excuses to a "community reaction", sometimes simply not to "offend the community".

What I tried to say is, communities, in the way it's currently applied are dividing the society, not creating social integration.
I still have faith in communities "independence" or specificity but that only with a strict respect of the laws, etc... Nothing to excuse when the community try to applies culture, concepts, moral values, laws, from another country.
  #508  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:07
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,913
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,191 Times in 3,404 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Just like Vancouver,Toronto or Montreal`s annual riot festival
  #509  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:08
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related.

I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting.

If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight.

Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?
I don't! Are you crazy/trolling? Do you believe an 11 year old in Manchester nicking trainers even watches the news, never mind has heard of any shooting. No one believes these riots have anything to do with a shooting.
The following 7 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #510  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:09
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related.

I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting.

If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight.

Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?
From the mouths of the blokes protesting Duggans slaying at the police station. After 5 hours we warned the police it would all kick off, we sent the women and kids home and then the riot started.

IMHO the looting came as an opportunistic move just as the students protest got hijacked earlier this year. So it can be said that the two are related but in a tenuous link.
  #511  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:10
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 966
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Come on, thats completely stretching it and you know it.

Due to the lack of police resources, these communities stood up to protect themselves and their livelihoods because they have to as the times call for it. These are hardworking small business owners who have built their businesses from scratch and cannot stand against the onslaught like the bigger companies can. Imagine their lives being turned upside down because their only shop have been looted - completely and utterly different from the CEO of Currys and Tescos who are just probably sweating in their boardrooms.

Why bring them down to the same level as those lawless thugs?
Looks like three people lost their lives trying to defend property after some chavscum moved them down in a car:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-14471405

Quote:
A 32-year-old man will be questioned on suspicion of murder after three men were run over and killed in Birmingham.

A vehicle has been recovered after the incident at about 01:00 BST on Dudley Road, Winson Green.

The men aged 31, 30 and 20 were taken to City Hospital where about 200 people from the Asian community gathered.

It is not yet known if the deaths were linked to overnight rioting in the West Midlands. The father of one victim has paid tribute to his son.

Tariq Jahan said son Haroon Jahan "had his whole life ahead of him".
..
It is thought the men who died had just come out of a mosque and were protecting their neighbourhood at the time of the incident in Winson Green.
..
West Midlands Police said: "Three men have died following a road collision in the Winson Green area of Birmingham which detectives are treating as murder.

"Three men were taken to hospital where two later died from their injuries. A third man was in a critical condition but confirmed dead at around 6.30am.

"West Midlands Police have launched a murder enquiry, arrested one man in connection with the incident and recovered a vehicle nearby which will be examined by forensics experts."

One nasty aftereffect of this trouble could be a rise in racism. If you read around forums in the UK there's a strong undercurrent of a belief that 'blacks' are overwhelmingly reponsible for the trouble. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of the BNP make political capital out of it.
This user would like to thank Gav for this useful post:
  #512  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:11
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post

Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?

Only in that w---ers like these will find any excuse to justify their criminal activities.

Last edited by economisto; 10.08.2011 at 12:12. Reason: removed bad word
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #513  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:11
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Looks like three people lost their lives trying to defend property after some chavscum moved them down in a car:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-14471405




One nasty aftereffect of this trouble could be a rise in racism. If you read around forums in the UK there's a strong undercurrent of a belief that 'blacks' are overwhelmingly reponsible for the trouble. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of the BNP make political capital out of it.
They already are ; BNP and EDL
  #514  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:12
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,231
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?
To contradict some here, of course it has. It is the excuse or smokescreen if you will, used to spark what we've seen on the first day. Thereafter it has all but been forgotten.

That's the only link there is or ever will be...
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #515  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of the BNP make political capital out of it.
Of course they will - if they haven't already.

Anything to avoid acknowledging the fact that this is a British problem, caused by British people.
  #516  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:17
cricketer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: near zurich
Posts: 1,196
Groaned at 29 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,051 Times in 427 Posts
cricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond reputecricketer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Nothing whatever.
Opportunistic thieving. no more no less. scumbags all of them.

Quote:
View Post
From what I have read , you claim these riots are racially motivated and organised, and not spontaneous and shooting related.

I am trying to find out why you think they had nothing to do with the shooting.

If that is not the case, then let me ask you straight.

Do you think the shooting had anything to do with the riots, if not , why not ?
  #517  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:18
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I've added a poll - just so that we know where we are with this.
  #518  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:19
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 966
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
From the mouths of the blokes protesting Duggans slaying at the police station. After 5 hours we warned the police it would all kick off, we sent the women and kids home and then the riot started.

IMHO the looting came as an opportunistic move just as the students protest got hijacked earlier this year. So it can be said that the two are related but in a tenuous link.

Agreed that Duggans death and the widespread rioting across England are two completely separate issues.

But it is fair to say that the overall conduct of the Met (including what looks suspiciously like yet another attempt by themto cover up/distort the truth after a police killing) acted as the catalyst.
  #519  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:23
Traubert's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,136
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 2,265 Times in 801 Posts
Traubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

If Duggan's death was the primary cause, why did London not go up in flames when Menendez had a clip emptied in his head?
This user would like to thank Traubert for this useful post:
  #520  
Old 10.08.2011, 12:23
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,415
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I've split the discussion of the circumstances surrounding Mark Duggan's death onto its own thread. Here it is:
Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police
The following 4 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tunisia uprising/riots Pashosh International affairs/politics 30 02.11.2011 22:12
Tottenham-Inter in Lucerne tonight CS_owns_Zurich_n_me Entertainment & dining 8 02.11.2010 22:51
Tottenham play with Young Boys Mikeybroomers Football/sports 35 26.08.2010 13:22
Young Boys v Tottenham travel Sherer4 Travel/day trips/free time 0 12.08.2010 15:55
Greek Riots 2008 - Agent Provocateur Cops Caught Red Handed jrspet International affairs/politics 3 05.01.2009 22:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0