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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #541  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:17
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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3 & 4 are the same or linked, i.e. an opportunist would not take an opportunity if the risk-reward balance is not stacked in his/her favour...
Tosh...an opportunist generally isn't in the position to accurately assess risk/reward balance. They think they'll get away with it, or at least have more chance that usual. These are criminals who are opportunistically indulging in criminality - they are not normal people opportunistically thieving.
  #542  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:18
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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First looter convicted:

Alexis Bailey, 31 year old teacher from Croydon ... looted the local Richer Sounds (HiFi shop).

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/510657/6929048.aspx

What was she 'protesting' about I wonder - cuts to schools?
Some teachers would have you believe that their income is lower than the benefits received by 'the unemployed'

I am not surprised that the looting has not been confined to the unemployed youths.
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  #543  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:20
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Some teachers would have you believe that their income is lower than the benefits received by 'the unemployed'
Having earned both kinds of 'salary', I can assure you that these teachers are talking bollocks.

  #544  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:20
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

What ha happened and perhaps still happening has made me so angry, but perhaps even more, desperately sad. I love London, and England in general. I know DB that you think this is a bit perverse, but I do.

Seeing the 1000s of people coming out with brooms to the streets of London, to show solidarity and a glimmer of hope- I wished I could have jumped on the next train or plane- to stand with them.

Is there anything we ex-pats could do to show solidarity- be it virtually, via the press, or in practical terms - to show we maybe living abroad, for whatever reason, but still care for London and England. It would be nice if those who have come to hate them keep away from this thread- and we can keep it positive and hopeful. Any bright ideas? Thanks.
  #545  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:21
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Any bright ideas?
Anthrax. ...
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  #546  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:23
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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What ha happened and perhaps still happening has made me so angry, but perhaps even more, desperately sad. I love London, and England in general. I know DB that you think this is a bit perverse, but I do.

Seeing the 1000s of people coming out with brooms to the streets of London, to show solidarity and a glimmer of hope- I wished I could have jumped on the next train or plane- to stand with them.

Is there anything we ex-pats could do to show solidarity- be it virtually, via the press, or in practical terms - to show we maybe living abroad, for whatever reason, but still care for London and England. It would be nice if those who have come to hate them keep away from this thread- and we can keep it positive and hopeful. Any bright ideas? Thanks.

I english, and from near london, you can pop over to my house and clean it if you want
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  #547  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:27
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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It is clear that the youth of Britain are disenchanted, disaffected, widely anti-social and now beyond the possibility of control. Politicians have been aware of this for years but chose to ignore it. These days young people can't get a better job than working at McDonald's for shit wages so they can't afford to buy things and can't afford a place to live. If they want a job they will need a degree and be bloody lucky to get one even then and then owe shit loads of money in tuition fees so they will never be able to put a deposit on a house. Landlords know that they are trapped and so put up the rent to keep them as paying slaves.

The young people of Britain are devoid of hope. They have no future. They are anti-social because society is against them. This was bound to happen and it did.

It is beyond political repair by politicians who can only plan for the current term and their reelection. We need a new charter for the young people of Britain.
As usual Roland you do spout some tosh

My parents couldn't afford to put me or my sister through Uni, yet we both went on to pursue careers instead of dossing around on the sofa. Uni fees have been a nightmare for years and I know my sister will be paying hers off for ages. I even managed to get my foot on the property ladder down south and I didn't receive any help from anyone.

Just because you don't have any money does not give you the right to behave like a feckless moron. I struggled for years in the UK to keep paying my mortgage but I was proud of my achievements and never wanted hand me outs.

It's got sod all to do with money and everything to do with parents who have not instilled respect into their kids. Even now I strive to make my parents proud of me.....that's what these feckers need!!
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  #548  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:31
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Anthrax. ...
In fact Anthrax is still lurking underneath the streets in the City of London, from the cattle markets of the 16th Century, and Crossrail has had to be aware of this when tunnelling for their new rail-link.
You could have a quiet word with them DB and they might do you a cheap deal
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  #549  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:32
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I'm going to Preston Lancashire this weekend and have just been informed by my sister that on the housing estate where I grew up a bus has been set fire to and a local shop set ablaze. I'm really ashamed to say I feel like canceling my visit.

I've seen the place deteriorate over the years and the elderly become prisoners of fear in their own homes. Even my mum who worked at the homeless family shelter for decades and was one of the strongest and toughest woman I've ever met, got to the stage where she was scared to say anything to the kids on the estate.

I feel sick and saddened by whats happened and happening in Britain and despair for the next generation of kids born on the estate.
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  #550  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:33
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Coincidence?

Still, it shows how much this nonsense has to do with povertyandeprivation...
I wonder if we'll get an off-duty policeman looter?
  #551  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:35
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I english, and from near london, you can pop over to my house and clean it out if you want
Amended with recent thinking...
  #552  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:43
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

On the bright side, at least the beach volleyball in London hasn't been interrupted


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  #553  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:57
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About "at 18 you have the same choices again, unless you complete these choices (or are in one of them) you get no benefits at all."

so there are always jobs and/or apprenticeships available? I think you miss the point that there are not enough available!!
Places in higher education are also limited & require qualifications.
The army today is quite small & being quite savagely reduced in the UK

Then you have no benefits & therefore your only choice is to turn to crime? Sounds like an intelligent solution?
Here is a typical scenario.

A girl (teenager) in a menial job falls in love with a teenager on a training scheme.

Both come from stressed homes where parenting is inadequate, parents work long hours to meet mortgage payments so aren't around. very often parents are unemployed or employed in menial jobs.
The likelihood of getting a job is low, even if trained, you get temp work at low pay but in between have to go back on the social. There are few real jobs.
There isn't much of a future to look forward to, in the meantime the teenager is being targeted by ads and the music industry for, clothes, cars, bikes, jewelry, cellphones.
Renting or buying their own place very expensive, unaffordable. Rents in London are crazy.
Drugs and drink are relatively cheap and easily available for favours. Once you get hooked then the favours drag you into gang criminality and eventually jail. You have to fight to survive.
In the process the girlfriend gets pregnant, the couple hope that this will get them on the housing list. It doesn't- the requirement is two kids and the requirement keeps going up. The benefits work out higher if the couple remain unmarried with no dad on the birth certificate. Brothers and sisters fall into the same trap leading to terrible over crowding at home. The kids go to school, coming home they try to find a space somewhere to do homework or sleep. They fall asleep at school. Their friends have stuff, (often nicked or obtained by illegal means) where's theirs.
Then the new austerity measures start to kick in.
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  #554  
Old 10.08.2011, 15:04
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Then the new austerity measures start to kick in.

hoppy, you seem total obsessed with cuts and austerity measures, what do you think your beloved labour would have done? have you not noticed whats been happening in ireland, greece etc when governments refuse to make timely cuts? your beloved labour have bankrupted the uk, someone has to sort it out and that will make them unpopular, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with the riots
  #555  
Old 10.08.2011, 15:05
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

So stupid Cameron. As soon as he announced that he would increase police in London I said " where is he getting them from? Not Manchester I hope. That would be pretty dumb" He did! Manchester police shipped down to London.
I wouldn't wonder it the looters waived to the police on the M1 as they went in the opposite directions. Manchester got looted and there was a lack of policing.
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  #556  
Old 10.08.2011, 15:06
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So stupid Cameron. As soon as he announced that he would increase police in London I said " where is he getting them from? Not Manchester I hope. That would be pretty dumb" He did! Manchester police shipped down to London.
I wouldn't wonder it the looters waived to the police on the M1 as they went in the opposite directions. Manchester got looted and there was a lack of policing.

its just tiresome now, you really think cameron makes those sorts of decisions???????? micro managing every public servant in the uk?? LOL LOL
  #557  
Old 10.08.2011, 15:09
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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It is clear that the youth of Britain are disenchanted, disaffected, widely anti-social and now beyond the possibility of control. Politicians have been aware of this for years but chose to ignore it. These days young people can't get a better job than working at McDonald's for shit wages so they can't afford to buy things and can't afford a place to live. If they want a job they will need a degree and be bloody lucky to get one even then and then owe shit loads of money in tuition fees so they will never be able to put a deposit on a house. Landlords know that they are trapped and so put up the rent to keep them as paying slaves.

The young people of Britain are devoid of hope. They have no future. They are anti-social because society is against them. This was bound to happen and it did.

It is beyond political repair by politicians who can only plan for the current term and their reelection. We need a new charter for the young people of Britain.
The fact that cops can't even use water canons day 1 is kinda in line with your alibism theory. Some of the speeches of London representatives were so off yesterday.

What I found most appalling were different bits of footage not the rioters looting, that's not a unique crap, horrible things like that happen (think Katrina and looting afterwards, or our floods we had and people looting, etc.). But the fact in one footage people would loot and normal, non hooligan people watched. I do not understand people who calmly walk by and watch, entire families, with kids watching, too.

The fact a teacher looted...What a role model. I think anywhere there is a huge disparity in the official look and something rotten beneath that facade, things will boil over.

Riots are not solely UK. Not even these riots, this scale, there were riots before, and there will be. I do not even think we should simplify it to racism, either. Shop owners are dif origin, since who else is owning little shops in those areas than immigrants, but I hesitate to chuck it under racial matter. I am sure those few English English local shop owners didn't get spared, either. I think it was stealing, looting and violence, since what else, a foot hooliganism is not a novelty anymore, shooting gets one in trouble, FB communication and craziness gets boring, etc. Mass psychosis pulled a lot of them in. Kinda team building through extreme experience together, no matter how horrible it sounds. We need to give them better peers to want to please. Better families. Program. Hope, maybe, help to fish, not give them fish.

People will be busy analyzing this for a long time. But unless these kids will get some mind food and family or family like involvement, I don't think it will improve. Strong structure. Good primary schools, middle schools, high schools. No stories about us, pretty well off expats compared to those lost souls, are going to change their life reality. The reality most of us could have been in but aren't. They obviously see things differently. So saying boo hoo look at me, I pulled out of what life threw at me won't help them. I remember the crazy light in some hardcore anarchist movement buddies' eyes when things got tough, and they had zero control over the situation and themselves, psychotic. I see situ like this similarly, they feel like they have zero control. Destruction as a replacement therapy. And at the same time there hasn't been a good punishment system..Aside of those kids who should know better, society needs criticism, for not acting earlier, for not being strict since it involves effort. I would be super quiet about those kids, give them hardcore punishments to deal with, zero publicity, but cut off the ill targeted gov support lots of them and their folks are used to abusing.
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  #558  
Old 10.08.2011, 15:13
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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First looter convicted:

Alexis Bailey, 31 year old teacher from Croydon ... looted the local Richer Sounds (HiFi shop).

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/510657/6929048.aspx

What was she 'protesting' about I wonder - cuts to schools?
It was a "he" and he was a full time worker at a prmary school (i.e. maybe not a teacher)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-23334652/
  #559  
Old 10.08.2011, 15:14
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its just tiresome now, you really think cameron makes those sorts of decisions???????? micro managing every public servant in the uk?? LOL LOL
Wasn't his grand announcement that he would increase police numbers?
He then announced that the Met increased from 6000 to 16000, where does Cameron think they got them- out of thin air. His reaction was probably don't know. don't care just secure London. He is incapable of micromanaging, just makes grand gestures and statements.

Didn't you listen to his grand speech?

The teacher may well be stealing supplies. I often had to buy supplies out of my own pocket.
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  #560  
Old 10.08.2011, 15:17
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So stupid Cameron. As soon as he announced that he would increase police in London I said " where is he getting them from? Not Manchester I hope. That would be pretty dumb" He did! Manchester police shipped down to London.
If you actually bothered to read something other than hoppyngtonpost.com, you might have seen that all eight of the Scottish police forces sent equipment, vehicles and manpower to backfill those sent south from the north of England.

Manchester is in the north of England.
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