Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #661  
Old 11.08.2011, 05:05
the_clangers's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO was St Prex, VD
Posts: 1,999
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,185 Times in 697 Posts
the_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I had predicted on here that ther would be civil unrest in the UK and a lot of the West.
These Riots have nothing to do with some black guy in the community being shot by the police. This was purely an excuse to start rioting (something to do for a laugh) and to do some looting.
It appears to be mainly black or white young lazy thugs that basically have never worked or done anything except scrounge benefits off the state.
They believe that the state owes them and they are entitled to benefits.
It has nothing to do with poverty; they are just people that are unemployable, don't want to work for their living and want everything for free.
There is no poverty in the UK (if one means a roof over your head and basic nutritious foods); it is just that society has given the impression that one needs a lot more than that to live.
Fixed that for you.

As to no poverty... You have experience in this area in the UK? Just askin'...

Quote:
View Post
"

they are rioting due to social and economic disenfranchising by a government dead set on keeping the rich rich and the poor exactly where they are.
"

sorry but that's total bollocks, free education, free housing, free benefits, free college etc etc the opportunities to better yourself are there for the taking in the UK, sure you may not be able to become super rich but you can have a perfectly comfortable life if you get off your arse.

Of course talking like some Jamaican gangster, covered in tats and saying init after every word isn't going to do you any favours in that job interview.

but lets face it, watching jeremy kyle, collecting your dole money, and the occasional riot is a much easier life.
I assume that is why you are here? Too much free stuff over there was making you feel all self conscious and you were trying to avoid being comfortable???

Thanks goodness for National Healthcare, cause rioting can be very hard on ones' health.

Quote:
View Post
One other point is that for every 1 high paid banker or rich industrialist or whatever, there are 00,000s of ordinary people struggling to get by, who live by the law, pay their taxes, educate their kids and look to society to protect them.
There is no place for the likes of these scum, who steal from us, burn down our houses and flaunt the rules that collective society imposes on them. Punishment will take hours of police time and waste what meagre resources are available, and for what, to have social workers saying its not their fault because they have been brought up on Broadwater or whatever?
They burn building s and cars, they steal openly and they turn local centres into ghettos, and we are going to show the other cheek?
I don`t think so.
I don`t have all the answers but we cannot EVER afford to allow this thing to continue. Otherwise in a few years you will be reading about townships in London.
Incidentally, on my tv screen were both black and white looters and rioters, there is nothing racist about this.
Usually they don't actually burn our houses down, they just offer subprime rate mortgages to people that can't pay and then repossess when one can't keep up.

Otherwise it sounds about right.
  #662  
Old 11.08.2011, 06:32
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I have been arguing this all evening with my husband- he says 'shoot the rioters, the police have no power, no respect is given them, these yobs don't want to work, they feel entitled to a life on the dole at others expense. Take all their entitlements away that will give them incentive.'

But he has never had to struggle financially.

I can't accept that people don't want to work if that is the key to a successful future. If so, why do kids at school still say 'when I grow up I want to be a doctor, or a fireman, or.... '

At what point do these children lose their aspirations- their dreams?
Perhaps I should accept it, that for the Chavs, the Yobs, whatever nasty names you want to call them, they aspire to remaining on the social.

I believe that all people are born much the same, innate intelligence and personality has nothing to do with class or race. So If I were born in a Chav family would I be destined to be the same?

Many of you on here claim that you were in similar circumstances and pulled your socks up, struggled and got out. I don't believe that such people do it entirely by themselves; there is always someone who at some time inspires the child and then there is luck. It seems that there just isn't enough inspiration or luck to go round. So why don't those who make it out inspire others? Have we become such an uncaring world? Are we Chavs and non-Chavs alike, all just filled with hate and greed?

In some respects nothing much has changed has it?

The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #663  
Old 11.08.2011, 08:30
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

A big up for Mr Hoppy
This user would like to thank grumpygit for this useful post:
  #664  
Old 11.08.2011, 08:46
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,729
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,942 Times in 3,654 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
The Norway massacre was a heinous crime. This is a not streetwise kid in the wrong place at the wrong time and getting beaten up and mugged.
Pah. The Norway massacre was just a few scores of people killed. That's nothing compared to [insert your choice of atrocity here].
  #665  
Old 11.08.2011, 08:54
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post


I assume that is why you are here? Too much free stuff over there was making you feel all self conscious and you were trying to avoid being comfortable???

Thanks goodness for National Healthcare, cause rioting can be very hard on ones' health.

can't make out if your joking, trolling, or being serious

having never claimed a penny from the state I have no idea what point your trying to make.
  #666  
Old 11.08.2011, 09:06
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I have been arguing this all evening with my husband- he says 'shoot the rioters, the police have no power, no respect is given them, these yobs don't want to work, they feel entitled to a life on the dole at others expense. Take all their entitlements away that will give them incentive.'

But he has never had to struggle financially.

I can't accept that people don't want to work if that is the key to a successful future. If so, why do kids at school still say 'when I grow up I want to be a doctor, or a fireman, or.... '

At what point do these children lose their aspirations- their dreams?
Perhaps I should accept it, that for the Chavs, the Yobs, whatever nasty names you want to call them, they aspire to remaining on the social.

I believe that all people are born much the same, innate intelligence and personality has nothing to do with class or race. So If I were born in a Chav family would I be destined to be the same?

Many of you on here claim that you were in similar circumstances and pulled your socks up, struggled and got out. I don't believe that such people do it entirely by themselves; there is always someone who at some time inspires the child and then there is luck. It seems that there just isn't enough inspiration or luck to go round. So why don't those who make it out inspire others? Have we become such an uncaring world? Are we Chavs and non-Chavs alike, all just filled with hate and greed?

In some respects nothing much has changed has it?

I think he's got a fair point about the entitlement. If you have a functioning family, people take their time to 1-give you security , 2-open your eyes in terms of what you can do, support you, 3-keep your ego in check. Aspirations of those who never had the support, some people's that is, might be bellow zero, to the point of hurting others in order to get stuff free, not work for it, since they might feel like they can and they are entitled.

The concept of entitlement has done disservice to loads of cultures, not just UK. Obesity, pamper yourself, buy your degree, feet up and wait to what you will receive..minorities oppressed in the past get paralised by the hurt feeling, too, by waiting for what's gov gonna get you, instead of investing in yourself. We have that trouble back home. Sometimes grudge, apathy and entitlement infects like a bad disease. It's a bad combo is there is lack of hope and education.

People inspire others all the time. Teachers teach, people write here, travel the world, share their experiences. But they have learned, either taught themselves or learned at home, you gotta always create a back up for yourself and your family. These kids never had it, and being selfish is all they know. Nobody even expects from them being moral. Loads of their families function on "you won't have what you won't steal from the system" notion. And loads of the parents are good ones and probably died in shame seeing their kids on tv, looting. Just shows what is going on between parents and kids these days. I hate the dishonorable scenario that we are witnessing at the moment, but it is a wake up call, and not only for UK. You gotta be cruel to be kind sometimes, and imposing boundaries mean the system cares for their future leaders, for those who are teens now. It makes them only rely on themselves, just like anyone else who has made it. Not giving them stuff for free because they have been hurt by the uncanny aspects of growing up without a proper family structure.

Success is in strategies, and sometimes those have to be pushed on people but letting them fend for themselves, learn how to handle cash, have priorities. Success stories are all over, books, films, adults, but I think we gotta quit being scared of "stigmatizing" certain social class with success stories, and see it is exposing them to success strategies so they can learn. Kids don't read these days, adults don't talk with them too much, figures they could respect aren't present or it's embarrassing to actually admit it, films are boring, unless it's a thriller or vampire crap of some sorts, where violence or injustice is theatrically romanticised.

Good strategies come from family and school and knowing, we are all on our own here. I have no idea where the system even gets the cash to pamper individuals who don't chip in. Just shows UK has means that other places do not have.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
The following 3 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #667  
Old 11.08.2011, 09:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

This article sums up why the scum are rioting. No excuse but interesting reading.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ogy-of-looting

At the other end of the authoritarian-liberal spectrum, you have Camila Batmanghelidjh's idea, movingly expressed in the Independent, that this is a natural human response to the brutality of poverty: "Walk on the estate stairwells with your baby in a buggy manoeuvring past the condoms, the needles, into the lift where the best outcome is that you will survive the urine stench and the worst is that you will be raped . . . It's not one occasional attack on dignity, it's a repeated humiliation, being continuously dispossessed in a society rich with possession. Young, intelligent citizens of the ghetto seek an explanation for why they are at the receiving end of bleak Britain, condemned to a darkness where their humanity is not even valued enough to be helped."
Between these poles is a more pragmatic reading: this is what happens when people don't have anything, when they have their noses constantly rubbed in stuff they can't afford, and they have no reason ever to believe that they will be able to afford it. Hiller takes up this idea: "Consumer society relies on your ability to participate in it.

So what we recognise as a consumer now was born out of shorter hours, higher wages and the availability of credit. If you're dealing with a lot of people who don't have the last two, that contract doesn't work. They seem to be targeting the stores selling goods they would normally consume. So perhaps they're rebelling against the system that denies its bounty to them because they can't afford it."
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #668  
Old 11.08.2011, 10:04
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
It seems that there just isn't enough inspiration or luck to go round. So why don't those who make it out inspire others? Have we become such an uncaring world?
Sorry, I can't agree that there is not enough to go around.

Those that want to escape need to listen. Listen, learn and contribute....that is the one option. The other is to curl up and die...although it generally takes 40 to 60 years for the corpse to figure out that the brain is dead and have the manners to stop functioning so that it can be recycled.

Sorry that this may sound a little hard core but I am fully willing to extend any hand needed for those that want to better their lives. The rest, please try and make as little noise as possible in the gutter.

I believe fully in both capitalism and socialism (both in their pure forms of course, not the current government corrupted implementations) but to gain the benefits of either one has to contribute and belong to the society in question.

I care very deeply and believe that many other people do as well. But caring is a two way street. To care about somebody, they need to reciprocate that caring very quickly else it will dry up and be replaced by protectionism forthwith.
__________________
Living it up in Gersau.
  #669  
Old 11.08.2011, 10:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,514
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
They seem to be targeting the stores selling goods they would normally consume.
Fancy that - i always thought you normally consume what you can afford.

I'd also normally consume an Aston Martin, but I'm not raiding the local dealership just yet.
The following 3 users would like to thank Shorrick Mk2 for this useful post:
  #670  
Old 11.08.2011, 10:22
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
I have been arguing this all evening with my husband- he says 'shoot the rioters, the police have no power, no respect is given them, these yobs don't want to work, they feel entitled to a life on the dole at others expense. Take all their entitlements away that will give them incentive.'
So, like.... Mr Hoppy is more than welcome to join the EF.
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #671  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,514
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

From the Beeb:

Quote:
A huge police operation and heavy rain in some areas appear to have prevented a fifth night of disorder.
Well duh, everybody knows it's a bad idea to transport electronic equipment in heavy rain.
  #672  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:43
porsch1909
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

  #673  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:45
grumpygrapefruit's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 6,395
Groaned at 38 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 17,624 Times in 4,508 Posts
grumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Nice to see that Cameron is back from holiday and taking a hard line on these scum bags.

The following 6 users would like to thank grumpygrapefruit for this useful post:
  #674  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:48
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

He looks well doesnt he! I hear he was earning a bit of pocket money serving in a cafe somewhere in Italy during his hols.
  #675  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:51
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,273
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,284 Times in 2,568 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
From the Beeb:



Well duh, everybody knows it's a bad idea to transport electronic equipment in heavy rain.
I heard a senior Police spokesman on the news say that the rain was the best Police Officer!
  #676  
Old 11.08.2011, 11:54
J_T's Avatar
J_T J_T is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: near Bern
Posts: 1,080
Groaned at 20 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,175 Times in 523 Posts
J_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Nice to see the looter knows to transport a plasma screen vertically...
  #677  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:06
mimi1981's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, previously Basel
Posts: 3,773
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 5,792 Times in 2,173 Posts
mimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond reputemimi1981 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post

Good to see you got my order Porsch
The following 3 users would like to thank mimi1981 for this useful post:
  #678  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:07
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 445
Groaned at 62 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,207 Times in 679 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Huffington: "...a young man injured during the London riots being robbed by men who supposedly came to his aid"

Except that the video doesn't show that the one guy who helps him is with the others or takes anything out of the bag.
  #679  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:09
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Nice to see the looter knows to transport a plasma screen vertically...

if that was a plasma screen he wouldn't be able to pick it up let alone run with it, looks like an led screen to me, too thin to be anything else
  #680  
Old 11.08.2011, 12:12
porsch1909
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
View Post
Good to see you got my order Porsch
His arms aren't as nice as mine
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tunisia uprising/riots Pashosh International affairs/politics 30 02.11.2011 22:12
Tottenham-Inter in Lucerne tonight CS_owns_Zurich_n_me Entertainment & dining 8 02.11.2010 22:51
Tottenham play with Young Boys Mikeybroomers Football/sports 35 26.08.2010 13:22
Young Boys v Tottenham travel Sherer4 Travel/day trips/free time 0 12.08.2010 15:55
Greek Riots 2008 - Agent Provocateur Cops Caught Red Handed jrspet International affairs/politics 3 05.01.2009 22:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0