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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 08.08.2011, 15:25
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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... unlike, say, France and Russia...
I can't think of any other European country where the 'Not what you know, but who you know' is so important as in the UK.
Even if you are a descendant from the most sophisticated family tree in France, something like this would never get the chance to become head of treasury...

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  #62  
Old 08.08.2011, 15:27
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I can't think of any other European country where the 'Not what you know, but who you know' is so important as in the UK.
Both Switzerland and Greece spring to mind. I'm sure other members could suggest other countries where jobs for the lads are the norm, too.

The United Kingdom isn't as special and unique as some Brits would have us believe.
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  #63  
Old 08.08.2011, 15:29
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I can't think of any other European country where the 'Not what you know, but who you know' is so important as in the UK.
Even if you are a descendant from the most sophisticated family tree in France, something like this would never get the chance to become head of treasury...

who voted for Gordon then?
  #64  
Old 08.08.2011, 15:29
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I can't think of any other European country where the 'Not what you know, but who you know' is so important as in the UK.
Even if you are a descendant from the most sophisticated family tree in France, something like this would never get the chance to become head of treasury...

can you shed a light for those of EF readers who are not totally aware of UK's political stories?
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  #65  
Old 08.08.2011, 15:31
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can you shed a light for those of EF readers who are not totally aware of UK's political stories?
Don't worry: I haven't a clue who he is, either.
  #66  
Old 08.08.2011, 15:31
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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can you shed a light for those of EF readers who are not totally aware of UK's political stories?
I think they're best kept in the dark
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  #67  
Old 08.08.2011, 15:32
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Don't worry: I haven't a clue who he is, either.
It doesnt really matter, it would appear to be a fairly toothless attempt to relate the Thread subject to politics
  #68  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:09
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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can you shed a light for those of EF readers who are not totally aware of UK's political stories?
... without going into too much boring details - George Osborne, the head of UK treasury, represents those upper-middle/upper class people in the UK who get into power due to family or other class related connections, without having the necessary education nor experience for the particular job.

This is very wide spread, not only in politics, but also in many other professional fields, where your social background, and with who you are related or friends with is very important.
And yes, the UK is quite unique in this case, compared to other European countries. I know it does exist too in CH, France etc. but definitely not in this extent
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  #69  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:11
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... without going into too much boring details - George Osborne, the head of UK treasury, represents those upper-middle/upper class people in the UK who get into power due to family or other class related connections, without having the necessary education nor experience for the particular job.

This is very wide spread, not only in politics, but also in many other professional fields, where your social background, and with who you are related or friends with is very important.
And yes, the UK is quite unique in this case, compared to other European countries. I know it does exist too in CH, France etc. but definitely not in this extent
As I said, and who voted for Gordon Brown? or is the question going to get me more neg rep? absolutely pathetic.
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  #70  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:18
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Tom Tulpe re JCM, he was innocent he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why he or the terrorists were living in Council House flats was never questioned by the news people at the time or since. I know where they lived and can understand partly the mis-understanding of the security services involved how they followed him down quiet roads to a quiet bus-stop. The shame I have felt re the cover-up at the time by the police/security services and in particular the politicians, including the then London Mayor, is something that will stay with me as a Londoner.

Hedgehog of death re: PC Blakelock, how he was killed was disgusting & what awful memory for his family to have of his death. Going forward when riots happen one always hope the police are able to protect themselves.

Re the Brixton Riots of 1995. My sister was on a bus from London Bridge to W. Dulwich that passed through Brixton, where the stations are and the Police Station is a bottle neck road. Because of the riots that the passengers on the bus were not initially aware of, the bus was very slow, so people were then clambering to get off the bus at a stop before the stations. Then the next stop people were clamouring to get on the bus. My sister’s concern was not the riot, but the fact that somehow she was squashed into a seat with a very smelly person next to her that she could not get away from. There was one thing at the time I was curious about so asked a black friend, as there was a pub that got burned down. He explained this pub had been a local black community pub for years, then it changed hands & was changed to a gay-bar.

These more currents riots, it was a weekend and hot. Once the riot started in Tottenham, you get hoodies and thugs would take advantage of a busy police force to attack other areas. In Brixton believe a large Curry’s store that is off the beaten track with car-park out the front was targeted for Plasma screens and the like.

Unfortunately these areas do have high unemployment & those living on benefits do not have an easy time. Applying for jobs and not getting so much as an interview is soul destroying

Something else, as familiar as Church Bells are to anyone living in Switzerland, so familiar is the sound of Police Sirens day and night in these areas without the riots
  #71  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:19
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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... without going into too much boring details - George Osborne, the head of UK treasury, represents those upper-middle/upper class people in the UK who get into power due to family or other class related connections, without having the necessary education nor experience for the particular job.

This is very wide spread, not only in politics, but also in many other professional fields, where your social background, and with who you are related or friends with is very important.
And yes, the UK is quite unique in this case, compared to other European countries. I know it does exist too in CH, France etc. but definitely not in this extent
And back on track, please do go into details about your chosen subject, albeit having precisely 0 to do with the OP, and explain in detail rather than "that its very wide spread" who and when in each case has benefitted from suck class snobbery? Have you ever taken a look in the House of Lords? Its a labour stronghold based on cronyism itself. Anyway, be a good chap and start your own thread about your poorly chosen subject and let the nice people discuss the Tottenham riots.
  #72  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:41
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I agree not all those in poverty turn into rioters some are trying to fight an already very difficult system to get out of the shit holes they live in. Have you tried living on benefits?

Only education and opportunities for real jobs can sort these places out.

I bet if you asked any person on those estates if they wanted a high profile job and were they willing to work for it they'd bite your hand off. You'd be pretty pissed off if you saw no way out and you were in a nasty cycle of poverty.

Poverty breeds poverty and I can only expect more rioting as the Tories and their banker mates refresh their bank accounts over the next few years.

What they did to the education system recently was disgusting. I would have loved to see Tory HQ burn to the ground. It would have sent a clear signal that the masses would not stand for these people preserving their own interests.

Problem is all parties are of the same cut these days in the UK. We're becoming the US rapidly with no political choices effectively run by corporations and banks.

A few shops being looted is nothing in comparison to the plague the tories have introduced into the education system.

A couple of weeks to sort the mess out in London is not comparable to the 50 years worth of damage the government has just created.

I'm glad people riot for these causes and the more it happens the better, politicans are so detatched from real people they need a reminder now and again.

A policeman holds an oath to uphold the peace they are not free to shoot individuals at will or carry out dubious checks at will etc.
(resists exploding on EF) I spent 5 years living just down the road from Bruce Grove high street where the worst of the damage is. The properties burned down, were by and large, small enterprises owner occupied by a mixture of afro carribean, asian and turkish owners, whose livlihoods are now destroyed. It is highly unlikely that they will be reseeded.

One of the reasons I made a real effort to move out was the increasing level of violence directed at people commuting from tottenham hale, (which is on the edge of the area) and from seven sisters (on the south end). The walk to my house became a daily forest of new yellow signs where "information was requested" to help in solving the latest mugging/ murder.

My experience of the area is that many of the people are focused on their "entitlement" to dole and housing, and even the thought of working for a living is alien to them. They know that they can sidle close up to the line in benefit fraud, petty theft, and minor drug dealing with ease because the authorities are so frightened of accusations of racism if they act.

I could write a long essay on this but will not. The problem in the area was never with the "tories" but with the sense of entitlement built on years of pandering to minorities and a local authority who is incapable of running a tap let alone education and social services. (remember Victoria Climbie?)

I speak with the experience of being a local, and someone closely involved with community leaders. How about you?
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  #73  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:42
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can you shed a light for those of EF readers who are not totally aware of UK's political stories?
He's a Wally!

My nephew just posted a load of Tottenham pictures up on Facebook. They took all the glasses from Vision Express- gee they must be broke! You can buy glasses form Walmart for about $12; unless of course you live in Switzerland where you pay through the nose

Last edited by hoppy; 08.08.2011 at 16:53.
  #74  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:46
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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He's a Wally!

My nephew just posted a load of Tottenham pictures up on Facebook. They took all the glasses from Vision Express- gee they must be broke! You can by glasses form Walmart for about $12; unless of course you live in Switzerland where you pay through the nose

you know there are no walmarts in england, and we use £ there not $

cheapest pair of specs on the uk high street would be about £30 excluding lenses.
  #75  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:51
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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(resists exploding on EF) I spent 5 years living just down the road from Bruce Grove high street where the worst of the damage is. The properties burned down, were by and large, small enterprises owner occupied by a mixture of afro carribean, asian and turkish owners, whose livlihoods are now destroyed. It is highly unlikely that they will be reseeded.
People like that come back much more quickly than you think. Probably most haven't been there for very long so if they built up those businesses once they can do it again (with the added advantage of having experience and loyal customers). Go to the Parisian banlieu and you'll see what I mean. There were shopkeepers selling stuff across makeshift counters in the burnt out ruins of their shops within hours of things having calmed down.

Of course they'll complain. Have you ever met a small shopkeeper who didn't have something to complain about? In their eyes any change is bad for business and no change is also bad for business. But when they need to they can make things move very quickly.

The biggest damamge is not that caused to shops and inventory. The biggest casualty is the belief that things like that only happen to other people in foreign countries. Remember how, as Paris was burning, the British press was ranting along about how it could never happen here because our type of integration works?
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  #76  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:52
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(resists exploding on EF)
My experience of the area is that many of the people are focused on their "entitlement" to dole and housing, and even the thought of working for a living is alien to them. They know that they can sidle close up to the line in benefit fraud, petty theft, and minor drug dealing with ease because the authorities are so frightened of accusations of racism if they act.
If you look at the pictures which race are you talking about when it comes to racism?
The locals never hassled me, the traffic did- Blackstock Road
  #77  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:54
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you know there are no walmarts in england, and we use £ there not $

cheapest pair of specs on the uk high street would be about £30 excluding lenses.
You don't go looting vision express and steal the £30 quid ones you take the £500 designer frames. They're not idiots.
  #78  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:55
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you know there are no walmarts in england, and we use £ there not $

cheapest pair of specs on the uk high street would be about £30 excluding lenses.
Better than a flat screen TV only dropped twice I guess!
My choice ( if I was so inclined, which I am not) would have been the jewelry store- that got plundered. A little education goes a long way- invest in Gold.
  #79  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:55
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You don't go looting vision express and steal the £30 quid ones you take the £500 designer frames. They're not idiots.
Then they should be easy to spot by the Old Bill at the Notting Hill Carnival.........
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Old 08.08.2011, 16:56
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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If you look at the pictures which race are you talking about when it comes to racism?
The locals never hassled me, the traffic did- Blackstock Road
Not too long ago you were telling us that criminal foreigners were a race.

Maybe it was that type of racism?
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