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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:57
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Better than a flat screen TV only dropped twice I guess!
My choice ( if I was so inclined, which I am not) would have been the jewelry store- that got plundered. A little education goes a long way- invest in Gold.
with there shutters, smash proof glass and all the non-tat safely locked away, not such an easy target as specsavers
  #82  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:57
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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(resists exploding on EF) I spent 5 years living just down the road from Bruce Grove high street where the worst of the damage is. The properties burned down, were by and large, small enterprises owner occupied by a mixture of afro carribean, asian and turkish owners, whose livlihoods are now destroyed. It is highly unlikely that they will be reseeded.

One of the reasons I made a real effort to move out was the increasing level of violence directed at people commuting from tottenham hale, (which is on the edge of the area) and from seven sisters (on the south end). The walk to my house became a daily forest of new yellow signs where "information was requested" to help in solving the latest mugging/ murder.

My experience of the area is that many of the people are focused on their "entitlement" to dole and housing, and even the thought of working for a living is alien to them. They know that they can sidle close up to the line in benefit fraud, petty theft, and minor drug dealing with ease because the authorities are so frightened of accusations of racism if they act.

I could write a long essay on this but will not. The problem in the area was never with the "tories" but with the sense of entitlement built on years of pandering to minorities and a local authority who is incapable of running a tap let alone education and social services. (remember Victoria Climbie?)

I speak with the experience of being a local, and someone closely involved with community leaders. How about you?
I dunno being in Birsfelden would put you right at the centre of all knowledge.

I'm talking about the areas in which I've lived and visited friends over the last 25 years, London, Liverpool, Manchester, South Wales, Plymouth, Birmingham, Glasgow, Newcastle Upon Tyne + Cornwall (yes Cornwall!). A pretty varied selection with similar problems.

They all share issues of deprivation, poor education, poor housing, no way out for individuals into jobs and areas of high crime as they branch in to alternative career paths. These people have no choice sometimes, they see a opportunity and take it.

Would I choose a life of petty crime or a job with a reasonable wage and career prospects? I know my answer to this.

If you're struggling to put food on the table people, you will get drawn into crime easily. They focus on their right to housing and dole as they have no other way out, otherwise the UK would be the new US with bums everywhere on food stamps. Do you really want society to become this in the UK?

Yes there will always be some who choose crime as a lifestyle, but I believe most people would not if given the chance to contribute to society. Everyone should have a fair chance to obtain a job and contribute, this is just not happening.

I agree with your final sentence and I share your thoughts, but a internet forum is not a place to expand on this.
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  #83  
Old 08.08.2011, 16:59
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Remember how, as Paris was burning, the British press was ranting along about how it could never happen here because our type of integration works?
The myth of 'tolerant Britain' is one of the most dangerous fallacies of the early 21st century. Britain is just as unpleasant for foreigners and racial minorities as any other comparable nation - we're just better at hiding our racism and bigotry under PC platitudes and meaningless 'equal opportunities' measures that wind people up for no good reason, while not actually having any perceptibly positive consequences for those they are designed to help.

Having said that, I don't believe that the riots over the last couple of days have had much to do with racism at all. The initial protests and skirmishes with the police did, perhaps, but the continued violence and destruction had more to do with people having a good time at everyone else's expense.
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  #84  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:00
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

"You don't go looting vision express and steal the 30 quid ones you take the 500 designer frames. They're not idiots."

As you would then need to buy the lenses, then yes you are, how exactly are you going to explain why you need lenses to fit your armani frames, that you just so happen to already have?? may as well just walk in and ask for lenses to fit in your stolen frames.
  #85  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:02
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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"You don't go looting vision express and steal the 30 quid ones you take the 500 designer frames. They're not idiots."

As you would then need to buy the lenses, then yes you are, how exactly are you going to explain why you need lenses to fit your armani frames, that you just so happen to already have?? may as well just walk in and ask for lenses to fit in your stolen frames.
You could always say that youve been set up, or...............
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  #86  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:03
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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You don't go looting vision express and steal the 30 quid ones you take the 500 designer frames. They're not idiots.
A lot of the sports gear got nicked. Wise move. Go down the nightclub wearing that gear with gold dripping from your neck and the birds will be gagging for it.

Have to feel sorry for that geezer - gentle giant, respected in the community, gave his mother flowers, would never let a mate down, would give you the shirt off his back to help you, most he ever did out of order was a bit of honest thieving, never hurt nobody (unless he had to). Woz just packing a firearm coz his mate had nowhere else to put it and he got startled and the filth gunned him down. Poor bleeder, he didn't deserve it.
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  #87  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:03
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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If you look at the pictures which race are you talking about when it comes to racism?
The locals never hassled me, the traffic did- Blackstock Road
"South Bank University student Jake Manu, 28, said Mr Duggan's death and the subsequent lack of dialogue from the police triggered the riot.
But he said tensions - some racial - had been bubbling for a long time.
"The police never talk to us, they ignore us, they don't think we're human in this area," he said.
"We get pulled over all the time like criminals. If you're wearing a black hood, [if] you're a black man, they pull you over for no reason."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436529
  #88  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:06
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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"The police never talk to us, they ignore us, they don't think we're human in this area," he said.
"We get pulled over all the time like criminals. If you're wearing a black hood, [if] you're a black man, they pull you over for no reason."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436529
They don't 'arf teach 'em logic like they used to.
  #89  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:07
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I dunno being in Birsfelden would put you right at the centre of all knowledge.



Would I choose a life of petty crime or a job with a reasonable wage and career prospects? I know my answer to this.
Always looking over your shoulder, can't watch Crime Watch with the kids, have anxiety attacks when you hear a siren, always keep an extra set of clothes and money at a friends?

I think that there are two issues here though. One is organized crime- which is everywhere and the other is an August of discontent.
  #90  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:08
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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The myth of 'tolerant Britain' is one of the most dangerous fallacies of the early 21st century. Britain is just as unpleasant for foreigners and racial minorities as any other comparable nation - we're just better at hiding our racism and bigotry under PC platitudes and meaningless 'equal opportunities' measures that wind people up for no good reason, while not actually having any perceptibly positive consequences for those they are designed to help.
Indeed, why do people think that PC means that people are loving caring folks instead of bigoted xenophobes?
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  #91  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:09
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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August of discontent.
Are you sure you spelt that right?
  #92  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:11
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Indeed, why do people think that PC means that people are loving caring folks instead of bigoted xenophobes?
I guess the opposite is true really. The more PC you need to be, the more it is that you're trying to hide.
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  #93  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:12
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I dunno being in Birsfelden would put you right at the centre of all knowledge.

.
Apparantly Canton Zug as well. I lived down the road from the Iceland pictured for a number of years and would count myself familar with the area. I was in contact with friends who live close to the carpet shop that was torched over the weekend.

Believe me that sense of entitlement I referred to runs very deep. Given the opportunity of a job these people would run a mile. Dont suggest for a moment that it is a lack of housing either since Bruce Grove where the riot actually happened is more than 50% social housing, so much so that private property is crowded out and the prices artificially disorted.
  #94  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:14
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

A recent survey on the Broadwater Estate in Tottenham regarding a possible adoption of the Euro instead of sterling brought some surprising results. 99.8 pct of people questioned said they preferred the Giro............
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  #95  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:23
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Rioting is good for the economy. Inted of bail-out money going to banks and lining the pockets of already-rich people, you instead allow a few poor people access to free TVs, iPads, mobile phones etc.

Then the rebuilding contracts can be awarded, people who stole iPads will get insurance in case someone steals their iPad, people who stole mobile phones will need SIM cards, and spend some money downloading retarded ringtones.

It's better than the idea of dropping money from a helicopter; when you have a riot it tends to be the bored and poor who get the free stuff; which is just where you need it.
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  #96  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:27
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Apparantly Canton Zug as well. I lived down the road from the Iceland pictured for a number of years and would count myself familar with the area. I was in contact with friends who live close to the carpet shop that was torched over the weekend.

Believe me that sense of entitlement I referred to runs very deep. Given the opportunity of a job these people would run a mile. Dont suggest for a moment that it is a lack of housing either since Bruce Grove where the riot actually happened is more than 50% social housing, so much so that private property is crowded out and the prices artificially disorted.
I come from one of the shittest areas of the UK full of scum skimmed off from our 2nd city and left to breed drug dealers, thieves and violent individuals. It's quite common to go out for a quiet pint and end up in a bar fight. It also did hold the highest teen pregnancy rate in the UK at one point! That should set the scene for you.

Hypothetical comments, there are very few jobs on the market in the UK hence you can't test the theory.

Many people do not have the opportunity to find work. I should know I filled the dole forms in, I was expected by a bare minimum to apply/enquire about x1 job a day. They're full to bursting with professional people which struck me, these are taking the maccy d's jobs leaving nothing for the poorly educated. Hence education is part of the problem. If experienced individuals are not getting work what chance for everyone else?

Which I'd say is perfectly reasonable to ask of people (apply for one a day). You don't just enter a job centre and walk out with the cash. Endless forms, applications and hassle is involved. Hundreds are applying for the same positions in the UK making it extremely difficult at the moment.

So the government should be cracking down on the "wasters" at the very same time there are no jobs available.

So what are these people to do? I'd have a sense of entitlement to have a roof over my head if I had no job.

I like the idea of chain gangs sweeping the streets. Perhaps we should reopen some workhouses?! Good old Tory thinking, they made plenty of cash on that a few years back.

I christen this "Tory Logic"
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  #97  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:35
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Perhaps we should reopen some workhouses?!
That's the first intelligent thing anyone has said in this thread today.
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  #98  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:36
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Not too long ago you were telling us that criminal foreigners were a race.

Maybe it was that type of racism?
Where did I say that?
  #99  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:37
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Where did I say that?
something to do with it being racist to expel criminal foreigners.
  #100  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:42
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Seems these 'disadvantaged' youths have been co-ordinating their attack plans on their Blackberrys.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...am-duggan-blog

Must be tough living on the poverty line, eh?
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