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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:45
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I think that this could be the beginning of something bigger and nastier than anyone suspects.

The problem is that social and community structures in many parts of the UK have disintegrated over the last few decades. Anti-social behaviour once considered beyond the pale is now almost normal.

As such, once you get trouble kicking off (for whatever reason) you are likely to find that there is a ready-built large anti-social, criminal-type element waiting to join in and add fuel to the fire.

What's more, it won't take long for the louts to discover how much power they have when they act in force. If things aren't brought under control quickly it could mark an escalation of now-common individual level criminality/anti social beaviour around the UK into routine mob-level criminality.


As regards the actual incident that sparked this, yet again the London Metropolitan Police haven't exactly covered themselves in glory. The press reports in the immediate aftermath of the killing seem deliberately designed to mislead (shootout with police, target shot as a result). This is not a new phenomenon coming from the Met. We've seen them pull this rubbish before with the killings of Menezes and Tomlinson and a string of uncredited stories leaked to the media to tarnish the name of the victim or put an untrue spin on events.
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  #102  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:48
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I can't help but feel if the rioting goes on any further, the government should declare that they will be bringing the army in to deal with it.

Something tells me these fairweather rioters would soon $hit it when faced with something other than a truncheon.
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  #103  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:49
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Quote:
Seems these 'disadvantaged' youths have been co-ordinating their attack plans on their Blackberrys.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...am-duggan-blog

Must be tough living on the poverty line, eh?
maybe Blackberry voicemail is more complex to hack?
I'm not surprised at all by these given the level of corruption of UK elite that the Murdoch scandal displayed.
  #104  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:52
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I think that this could be the beginning of something bigger and nastier than anyone suspects.
Meh, we can only sit and see. I got the hell out just because I have suspected something like this will end up boiling over pretty soon and then it will be mayhem for all.
You can only create so much pressure, financial, political, social, environmental, etc. in a system before that pressure forces significant change. Perhaps this is it. Dry grass, one small spark. Boom!
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  #105  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:52
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I can't help but feel if the rioting goes on any further, the government should declare that they will be bringing the army in to deal with it.

Something tells me these fairweather rioters would soon $hit it when faced with something other than a truncheon.
I don't think the army has been sent in to deal with an armed situation on mainland Britain since the 1920s or so. The decison to do the same in N. Ireland has led to a terrible escalation and dire consequences that sparked more unrest rather than ending it. I don't think anybody would send them in unless all alternatives have been exhausted.
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  #106  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:55
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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something to do with it being racist to expel criminal foreigners.
Oh you are talking about Switzerland. No I don't agree with expelling innocent family members when one family member has committed a crime and I don't believe that the crime is Switzerland is mainly attributed to foreigners, certainly the US don't think so concerning tax evasion, but this isn't the Swiss thread.

What looks like a foreigner to you in these riots I see as being British. In Switzerland you have learned to conceptualize foreigners by their colour, but I have had a different upbringing (although still somewhat racist). When we look at the photos of the rioters, you can pick out the 'foreigners' but as a Brit how can I say who is foreign?
For me Non Caucasian ≠ Foreign ≠ criminal.
For SVP, Non- Caucasian=Foreigner=criminal

Tottenham is multicultural- like I said lots of Anglicized Cypriots.
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  #107  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:55
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I can't help but feel if the rioting goes on any further, the government should declare that they will be bringing the army in to deal with it.
Turn off all the mobile phone masts throughout Greater London. Establish road blocks on all exits and entrances to the city. Fly helicopters and fighter jets over the city day and night to prevent anyone getting any sleep. Send in a few randomly targeted missiles to shake the population up a bit. Guard all supermarkets, grocery stores and off-licences to prevent anyone buying any food. Turn off the water supply. Drop smallpox-infected hooded tops into suitable parts of the city.

Wait two months.

Send in the army to clean up.

Sorted!
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  #108  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:56
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I christen this "Tory Logic"
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/th...n-and-to-.html
  #109  
Old 08.08.2011, 17:58
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Here's hoping it doesn't spread to the leafy suburbs of Hendon (NW London)
Uum, I lived in Hendon a few years, I found on Saturdays’ it was often Openly security patrolled by the Jewish community. Several times I was stopped in my own little road and asked where I was going, guess it was because I was wearing Jeans (weekends being my days off from the office) instead of being dressed like the Royal Family going to a wedding. I was on the side of Golders Green & Brent Cross. Never saw any ’hoodies’ in Hendon. My main gripe was with the double parking that often happened outside the shops near Golders Green – they say money talks. The burnt cars pictured in these recent riots were not ‘Rollers’ (Rolls Royce) or Mercedes etc common in Hendon
  #110  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:01
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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What looks like a foreigner to you in these riots I see as being British. In Switzerland you have learned to conceptualize foreigners by their colour, but I have had a different upbringing (although still somewhat racist). When we look at the photos of the rioters, you can pick out the 'foreigners'

Very easy. People who smash stuff are criminal and criminals are foreigners because they have values that are foreign to me. They identify themselves as being foreigners through their actions.
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  #111  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:11
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

His twitter feed is interesting, Man U supporter obsessed with US politics and the death penalty debate. Hard at work for the people of Tottenham, luckily something fell into his lap he feels he can comment on.
  #112  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:28
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

"Escape from London"

Quote:
Turn off all the mobile phone masts throughout Greater London. Establish road blocks on all exits and entrances to the city. Fly helicopters and fighter jets over the city day and night to prevent anyone getting any sleep. Send in a few randomly targeted missiles to shake the population up a bit. Guard all supermarkets, grocery stores and off-licences to prevent anyone buying any food. Turn off the water supply. Drop smallpox-infected hooded tops into suitable parts of the city.

Wait two months.

Send in the army to clean up.

Sorted!
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  #113  
Old 08.08.2011, 18:59
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Meh, we can only sit and see. I got the hell out just because I have suspected something like this will end up boiling over pretty soon and then it will be mayhem for all.
You can only create so much pressure, financial, political, social, environmental, etc. in a system before that pressure forces significant change. Perhaps this is it. Dry grass, one small spark. Boom!
I don't think it's a political thing with rage at inequality and poor economic prospects etc. etc. boiling over (although that is there to a lesser extent and there would be justification IMO).

I think it's because a small but increasing number of people in the UK are ... how can I put this 'politically correctly' ... anti-social, feral scumbags (OK, forget about being politically correct).

Seriously, there is a small but not-insignificant section of the UK population who literally have no idea of society or community or what would constitute social norms in a civilised society. What they do have is an enormous sense of self-entitlement and big but easily bruised egos.

Nothing to do with race, religion or even social class. Everything to do with a complete loss of direction from their peers and society at large. I see small things all the time from individuals but all it takes is for a pack mentality to take hold and the potential for trouble is magnified.


No idea what the answer is as I can't see how community spirit is going to be rebuilt following decades of decay and neglect. When people feel that they are not part of a wider society then they don't even see that they have anything to lose from trashing their own back yard.

I do believe that the coming years of economic decline are likely to make the situation a lot more volatile and dangerous.
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  #114  
Old 08.08.2011, 19:00
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Violence spreads to Hackney

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  #115  
Old 08.08.2011, 19:08
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I don't think it's a political thing with rage at inequality and poor economic prospects etc. etc. boiling over
I don't think it is any specific thing but I think that it is all of them put together will result in a large explosion at some point.
It may not be this year, it may not be next, but it will be soon. The UK has been bottling shit up for far too long, and that does not and never will work.
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  #116  
Old 08.08.2011, 19:11
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Hmmmmm, how calm the politicos are trying to sound....that is not a good thing....it generally means that they are crapping themself.
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  #117  
Old 08.08.2011, 19:12
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I don't think it is any specific thing but I think that it is all of them put together will result in a large explosion at some point.
It may not be this year, it may not be next, but it will be soon. The UK has been bottling shit up for far too long, and that does not and never will work.
The UK used to have conscription for blood letting and releasing the youth pressure cap. Aggression and anger need an outlet, as always, a force will take the path of least resistance. Racist/Eager/Corrupt Police do not help, dispersal orders agitate, SUS laws make the blood boil. There is too much "law" in these areas , insisted upon by the better off, yet no relief for social poverty is invested into the areas that need it most.
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  #118  
Old 08.08.2011, 19:14
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I agree in principle even if I were to want to debate some of the specifics but at this stage of the game it looks like if the pot is definitly bubbling.
  #119  
Old 08.08.2011, 19:21
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Yup, and this is my exact point, it does not matter what really starts it, it does not really matter what the motivation is, and it does not matter what anybody does about it....
It will burn until it is burnt out.
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  #120  
Old 08.08.2011, 19:23
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

1816: BBC London says there is criminal activity on the A202 Peckham High Street, which is blocked near Rye Lane - with shops being smashed and buses attacked.

All buses have been pulled out of the area surrounding Lewisham and Peckham.
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