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View Poll Results: Why are these riots happening (vote for the closest to your beliefs)
The Duggan shooting is the primary cause of the riots 4 4.12%
The riots are caused because of social injustice 9 9.28%
The riots are caused because of too much "justice"/benefits etc 5 5.15%
The riots are spontaneous/opportunistic, just criminals seeing an opportunity. 75 77.32%
The riots are caused by too much immigration 4 4.12%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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  #161  
Old 09.08.2011, 03:48
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Here's a map of the verified riots locations:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msi...1522,11.634521
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  #162  
Old 09.08.2011, 04:20
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

The coalition government is pissing in the updraught of discontent that are generating these fires. They say that Keynesian Economics is dead, certainly this proves that the coalition supply-side economics or whatever their economic policy is, is dead.
The New Statesman, months ago, saw disturbing parallels with Portugal. The British people did try peaceful demonstrations but were ignored

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The British people were never going to sit idly by and watch their government tear the country apart. They came in their hundreds of thousands - young and old, firm and infirm - to join what the police have called a "peaceful and well-stewarded" protest march and rally in London on 26 March. They came from all political parties, from north, south, east and west, to show that they opposed the coalition's damaging and unnecessary cuts to public services. At last, the public has joined the debate.
http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/...-growth-fiscal

The cuts hit the poorest areas most:

[QUOTE]Caroline Flint, shadow local government secretary, said: "The breakneck speed and size of the Tory-led government's reckless front-loaded cuts to councils will hit local jobs, economic growth and the vital frontline services people rely on."[/QUOTE

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...rest-worst-hit

I am surprised that there has been little reaction in Manchester. I should be happy that people are voicing their discontent, but the problem is that this type of venting of frustration often makes victims of the innocent and most vulnerable.
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  #163  
Old 09.08.2011, 07:16
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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This reminds me of the G8 riots in Geneva+Lausanne in 2003, minus the political incentive. It's now a purely criminal widescale if not wholesale pillaging of area after area. The lack of crowd control gear (and the fact that the gangs of hundreds are roaming from area to area) is making it a serious case for martial law.

Oh and Bristol, Liverpool and Birmingham are kicking in. Don't tell me this isn't organised
It doesn't have to be organised. The police force is overstetched and not using a tactic that catches many people so they are free to go out there and loot and take their fill and so they do. Unless people are apprehended they will carry on doing it. We might see riots the whole of this week or restarting the next weekend.

This will put up insurance costs on shops and some of the small traders may not be able to afford it any longer. Youths know that they can do what they like so this can happen at any time or they can mug who they want when they want or even shoot and stab. London is now a lawless zone. The thugs and the criminals rule the streets.
  #164  
Old 09.08.2011, 07:31
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

It was pretty unbelievable watching it live on tv lastnight, the police seemed to be totally without a clue, storming forward one minute and in full retreat the next, which just seemed to spur the looters on, and they came back in greater numbers. whoever thought up that strategy needs sacking.

but the uk has got the police force it asked for, too scared to get stuck in, hold back, get some pictures and try to sort it out later. thats some comfort to all those burnt out car owners, looted business, burnt down business and now homeless people. I could almost understand if they where picking on faceless multinationals and 'bankers' type cars, but the shop alight in peckham lastnight was a small baby wear shop, the shop in croydon was a family owned and run furniture store (some 149 years old), the cars where run on the mill 'normal' peoples cars, eg an old clio probably worth £500 tops, well done people, well done.
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  #165  
Old 09.08.2011, 07:36
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I sat last night watching the fires and riots on tv, speechless.

Violence simply for violence's sake. Saw a video this morning, taken by a rioter of a few of them standing near a Debehams, pondering which store to break into and what to take. Watches were the item of choice.

I'm still not sure what to make of it all, of the reasons behind it. I don't think it is just the current economic situation.
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  #166  
Old 09.08.2011, 07:51
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

It has nothing to do with poverty - everything to do with aquisition, gang authority and really shit parental values . Once it kicked off in tottenham , the other major inner city gangs were going to try to show authority by responding.

In all of the struggles in South Africa, I never noted the rioters/protesters moving from the group aim and looting Bang and Olfsen, Currys, Sony stores...

It says everything about those involved - they are scum. As are their parents. It's nothing to do with poverty as such. If you are poor you steal food and items you need ..... not surround sound systems and iPads
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  #167  
Old 09.08.2011, 07:57
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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It has nothing to do with poverty - everything to do with aquisition, gang authority and really shit parental values . Once it kicked off in tottenham , the other major inner city gangs were going to try to show authority by responding.

In all of the struggles in South Africa, I never noted the rioters/protesters moving from the group aim and looting Bang and Olfsen, Currys, Sony stores...

It says everything about those involved - they are scum. As are their parents. It's nothing to do with poverty as such. If you are poor you steal food and items you need ..... not surround sound systems and iPads
We are witnessing 3 generations of "shit parenting" and the destruction of the family.

When I was 12, we weren't allowed out at night after 8pm. These kids are no doubt congratulated for bringing the latest flat screen TV home by any parent who might actually be there.

SKY TV calls this "recreational rioting"...
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  #168  
Old 09.08.2011, 07:58
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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It has nothing to do with poverty - everything to do with aquisition, gang authority and really shit parental values . Once it kicked off in tottenham , the other major inner city gangs were going to try to show authority by responding.

In all of the struggles in South Africa, I never noted the rioters/protesters moving from the group aim and looting Bang and Olfsen, Currys, Sony stores...

It says everything about those involved - they are scum. As are their parents. It's nothing to do with poverty as such. If you are poor you steal food and items you need ..... not surround sound systems and iPads
I think what people here don't seem to appreciate is poor in england means you don't have an ipad or surround sound system, but it appears you do have a blackberry and internet access. there is no reason for anyone to be starving in the uk, all recent cases of people starving have been due to abuse or neglect.

you can guarantee the first copper to hit back will be dragged over the coals, and those no win no fee lawyers and licking there lips in anticipation of the up and coming workload.
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  #169  
Old 09.08.2011, 08:04
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Sickening scenes. Looks like a trailer for the new "Planet of the Apes" movie rather than the backdrop to "Scenes from the 2012 Olympic Games".

Strikes me that there's no ambition beyond quick gratification and a lust for violence behind these attacks. It's a poor reflection of values and a general "couldn't give a shit" attitude that fuels the fire. When you feel that your quest for a better life includes ransacking local businesses for a few pounds rather than nurturing your neighborhood and looking after those less fortunate, you've lost your way. Too many anonymous people with too little to do, no hope and the moral values of stray dogs.

Without going over the top in the analysis, bear in mind that there are maybe a few hundreds or maybe thousands in a city of 9 million causing the trouble. This is not a meltdown, but to stop the violence continuing, it requires the public to react and name the names of the criminals. Nothing will change unless attitudes change and that includes all Londoners.
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  #170  
Old 09.08.2011, 08:08
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Without going over the top in the analysis, bear in mind that there are maybe a few hundreds or maybe thousands in a city of 9 million causing the trouble. This is not a meltdown, but to stop the violence continuing, it requires the public to react and name the names of the criminals. Nothing will change unless attitudes change and that includes all Londoners.

that won't happen, everyone knows the police will arrest, charge and then the scumbag will be let out on bail, to go and give the grass a slap, when it finally gets to court they will be let go on community service or some other meaningless 'punishment', unless of course they threw a foam pie at someone.

if you can't get witnesses from a hall full of people to a stabbing or shooting at point blank range then what hope do you have here??
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  #171  
Old 09.08.2011, 08:15
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I was walking down Oxford street last night and a copper asked me what I was doing. I said I was window shopping and he nicked me!
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  #172  
Old 09.08.2011, 08:22
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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The coalition government is pissing in the updraught of discontent that are generating these fires. They say that Keynesian Economics is dead
Does it really matter which government did what? They both spent and spent big.

'Living within your means' is the new reality, always seemed pretty logical to me.
  #173  
Old 09.08.2011, 08:42
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Sickening scenes. Looks like a trailer for the new "Planet of the Apes" movie rather than the backdrop to "Scenes from the 2012 Olympic Games".

Strikes me that there's no ambition beyond quick gratification and a lust for violence behind these attacks. It's a poor reflection of values and a general "couldn't give a shit" attitude that fuels the fire. When you feel that your quest for a better life includes ransacking local businesses for a few pounds rather than nurturing your neighborhood and looking after those less fortunate, you've lost your way. Too many anonymous people with too little to do, no hope and the moral values of stray dogs.

Without going over the top in the analysis, bear in mind that there are maybe a few hundreds or maybe thousands in a city of 9 million causing the trouble. This is not a meltdown, but to stop the violence continuing, it requires the public to react and name the names of the criminals. Nothing will change unless attitudes change and that includes all Londoners.
Parents won't snitch on their teenage kids though, and neighbours would be too scared of retaliation.
On the tv footage a few minutes ago, youngsters could be quite clearly heard saying 'let's go for some watches man'.
I wish they'd ransack Harrods instead of ruining hardworking small shopkeepers' livelihoods.
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  #174  
Old 09.08.2011, 08:48
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I was watching some of the news live on the BBC last night and, rather unusually, I found it all rather worrisome especially due to it being so random and spreading to other cities. I remember the looting on St. Croix after Hugo literally denuded the island...I stood at the window watching people lugging around a looted air conditioner even though there was no power on the island and their home had been blown to bits. Looting doesn't follow need, it's more of a psychological reaction to fear, angst and helplessness. The UK is primed for this kind of violence so if the leaders don't do something quickly to quell the violence, it could spread even further.
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  #175  
Old 09.08.2011, 08:48
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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I wish they'd ransack Harrods instead of ruining hardworking small shopkeepers' livelihoods.
Don't suggest violence against "wannabe Royals", that counts as treason.
  #176  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:00
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Don't suggest violence against "wannabe Royals", that counts as treason.
al-Fayad gave up on that when Prince William chose another.
I don't think Qatar Holdings is interested in Prince Harry, but Harrods remains an obscene establishment whoever it's owned by, and could much more easily restock it's diamonds than some poor chap in Peckham his babywear shop.
  #177  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:01
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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Don't suggest violence against "wannabe Royals", that counts as treason.
al fayed sold harrods some months back
  #178  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:02
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

I vote to cancel every single social and sporting event until these s stop what they're doing.

After that, I propose military service for anyone who has been unemployed since their father's birth.

After that, I would put subliminal messages into each Jeremy Kyle broadcast.
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  #179  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:02
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

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But, on Swiss TV, the London correspondent quite angrily spoke about the killing of a young black under rather strange circumstances, to put it mildly. Does this mean that this really most unfortunate incident started the whole matter ??
As mentioned as well, it is not really any one incident but rather general social malaise that is causing this. Pressure has been building for 40 years and now it is being let off.

The UK government need to understand that they can't just disenfranchise people without there being implications. Those implications are being expressed by the current social pressure valve.
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  #180  
Old 09.08.2011, 09:11
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Re: The Tottenham Riots....

Right, there's only one thing for it to sort this out - the government should send in Gazza with his chicken, fishing rod and six pack.

His track record for diffusing tense situations speaks for itself.
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