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Old 08.08.2011, 21:33
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Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television 8/8/11

Documentary about blood diamonds in Zubabwe. Running now.
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Old 08.08.2011, 21:38
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

Yay and once again my wonderful president gains international coverage, but as always for the wrong reasons. Its sad.
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Old 08.08.2011, 22:36
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

Huh?

By definition a blood diamond is a diamond that comes from an war zone, and is used to purchase arms that can be directly linked to mass killings. There's currently no blood diamonds in the world.

But there is Blood Colton, Thanks to Apple computer the Chinese are funding the war in Goma with their purchases of colton for the Iphone, and Ipad....

No one seems to mind that though.
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Old 08.08.2011, 22:52
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

Did you watch the documentary? Was there not enough blood torture, rape and dead bodies to call those 'blood diamonds'?
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Old 08.08.2011, 23:03
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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Did you watch the documentary? Was there not enough blood torture, rape and dead bodies to call those 'blood diamonds'?
Hey, Im just going off of the definition as stated by the Kimberly Process.

I didnt say that guy shouldnt be assassinated. We do plenty of work in the diamond industry in Africa. "Blood Diamond" has a VEERRRYYY specific definition for us.

Mugabe's a pig. What do you expect from that guy? But the Chinese are more than willing to fund him. If he had no diamonds he would still be in business.

Debeers wants to keep Zimbabwe out of the market because they think they could push down diamond prices. So they push this smear campaign about diamonds? He funds his regime through one main source and thats NGO's

They have to pay him off in order to work in the country. Its well documented. As long as NGO's dont play hard ball he will always be funded. The Chinese are the other 30% of his funding. Diamants make up such a small portion its not even worth mentioning.
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Old 08.08.2011, 23:25
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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Huh?

By definition a blood diamond is a diamond that comes from an war zone, and is used to purchase arms that can be directly linked to mass killings. There's currently no blood diamonds in the world.
...
See here for a more detailed definition of a blood diamond. Just because there's no rebel activity or insurgencies currently being waged in Zimbabwe with the diamonds being sold to fund such, does not make the way in which they are acquired any the more acceptable.

As the documentary showed, people have been tortured, raped, maimed and killed for these diamonds and for sure, the huge profits made from the sale of them is not in any way being used to the benefit of the overall population and betterment of the country.

War or not, the fact there's been so much bloodshed due to them, makes them blood diamonds in my view...
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Old 08.08.2011, 23:56
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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See here for a more detailed definition of a blood diamond. Just because there's no rebel activity or insurgencies currently being waged in Zimbabwe with the diamonds being sold to fund such, does not make the way in which they are acquired any the more acceptable.

As the documentary showed, people have been tortured, raped, maimed and killed for these diamonds and for sure, the huge profits made from the sale of them is not in any way being used to the benefit of the overall population and betterment of the country.

War or not, the fact there's been so much bloodshed due to them, makes them blood diamonds in my view...
But thats every commodity in Africa. Gold, Copper, Colton, Rice, Copra, etc etc.... I just dont understand why no one protests apple computer for cornering the market in colton? Statistically colton pays for 80% of the killing in Eastern Congo, which is far more violent than Zimbabwe. So why dont you wikipedia that my dear.

I think Mugabe should be killed just as badly as Ghadafi. But no one calls oil "blood oil".... But it kills more people that diamonds do. I just get sick of people blaming all the worlds evil on diamonds.
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Old 09.08.2011, 00:01
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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But thats every commodity in Africa. Gold, Copper, Colton, Rice, Copra, etc etc.... I just dont understand why no one protests apple computer for cornering the market in colton? Statistically colton pays for 80% of the killing in Eastern Congo, which is far more violent than Zimbabwe. So why dont you wikipedia that my dear.

I think Mugabe should be killed just as badly as Ghadafi. But no one calls oil "blood oil".... But it kills more people that diamonds do. I just get sick of people blaming all the worlds evil on diamonds.
No time to waste debating anything, anywhere with anyone who attempts to take things to a condescending level...
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Old 09.08.2011, 00:09
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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No time to waste debating anything, anywhere with anyone who attempts to take things to a condescending level...
???? I go to Africa on a regular basis. I see all of these things first hand. Am I not allowed to think that something is a sham if I see that its a sham? Sure people use the money from Diamonds for funding bad things. But its truely a very small portion of the funding. If you dont believe me then come to Kinshasa with me next month and you can see how it works.

If they were to kill Mugabe or make all Zim diamants illegal do you think that would change anything?

What you fail to realize is that for every one bad person who makes money off of diamants there are 15 who need to make a living to feed their family. Thats how they pay for it. If you criminalize the trade of Zim roughs then you will be pushing the other 15 people back to the stone age. But I guess you've never been to Africa or seen how the rough diamond trade works?
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Old 09.08.2011, 00:19
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

This trivial (and somewhat infantile) back and forth is kinda taking the focus away from fact that some huge injustices are going on and people need to know.
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Old 09.08.2011, 00:23
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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This trivial (and somewhat infantile) back and forth is kinda taking the focus away from fact that some huge injustices are going on and people need to know.
Yes, so Mugabe should be killed.... What do your parents do back in Zim?
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Old 09.08.2011, 00:32
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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Hey, Im just going off of the definition as stated by the Kimberly Process.
Well, you know... we are discussing a TV program that was pretty clear and graphic. You apparently did not watch it but throw in some uninformed statements that simply sound wrong to anyone who watched it.

Short recap: The kimberly process countries are discussing to stop the ban on some of Mugabes mines based on "improvements" that happened there in the past years. The BBC team went there and filmed that the torture camp is still in place, interviewed victims that got tortured this year and shows that nothing at all has improved. They showed pretty clear evidence of mass murders and many coherent arguments that nothing at all has improved in the sence that Zimbabwian diamonds are in fact blood diamonds by all standards.
That Mugabe is an animal is nothing new - the story is that the kimberly process guys went into Zimbabwe for some 2.5 days and decided that it is all fine now. Having some representative in Brussels smiling into the cameras saying "we don't have the resources to check every detail and rely on the information we get from the involved members" is nothing short of a slap in the face of the thousands of workers who get tortured and killed there. And the ICC representative saying that the UN security council has to ask him to look into the matter.
They also show jewellers who openly admit that they don't know the country of origin of their stones and that no UK consumer has ever asked about it.
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Old 09.08.2011, 09:03
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television, NOW

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Well, you know... we are discussing a TV program that was pretty clear and graphic. You apparently did not watch it but throw in some uninformed statements that simply sound wrong to anyone who watched it.

Short recap: The kimberly process countries are discussing to stop the ban on some of Mugabes mines based on "improvements" that happened there in the past years. The BBC team went there and filmed that the torture camp is still in place, interviewed victims that got tortured this year and shows that nothing at all has improved. They showed pretty clear evidence of mass murders and many coherent arguments that nothing at all has improved in the sence that Zimbabwian diamonds are in fact blood diamonds by all standards.
That Mugabe is an animal is nothing new - the story is that the kimberly process guys went into Zimbabwe for some 2.5 days and decided that it is all fine now. Having some representative in Brussels smiling into the cameras saying "we don't have the resources to check every detail and rely on the information we get from the involved members" is nothing short of a slap in the face of the thousands of workers who get tortured and killed there. And the ICC representative saying that the UN security council has to ask him to look into the matter.
They also show jewellers who openly admit that they don't know the country of origin of their stones and that no UK consumer has ever asked about it.
It would be easier to kill Mugabe.

OK, since it seems everyone is an expert after watching a TV program let me explain how the KP system works. Its like killing a mosquito with a shot-gun. It would be easier to kill Mugabe.

In the diamond world there are 85% industrial and 15% gem quality. The theft, graft, and corruption focuses on about 1/3 of the gem quality where the roughs are +7carats. (they dont want a 0.10carat industrial stone that they can sell for $30. They want a VVS1 20 carat gem that will fetch $150,000 rough)

In other words the Mugabe regime relies on 5% of the diamonds for funding, even if they control their entire kimberlite deposits.

The other 95% of diamonds? Well these are mined, bought, sold, traded, by regular locals who have nothing to do with the regime. This is their livelyhood. This is how they are able to get their hands on hard-currency and feed their family. I know this because I buy roughs off of them.

The term "blood diamond" would destroy these people. This is their means of survival in this country. Westerners like to throw out the term "blood diamond" when ever they think its convenient. But the 95% of diamonds that are in Zim are not conflict diamonds.

So lets say they do force Zimbabwe to stop selling stones. What will happen? The locals will lose their income and their source of hard currency.

Most of these people cant farm (I know this because we have made a small business out of relocating farmers, who have lost their farms, from Zimbabwe to other African countries and Brazil) and need hard currency to survive.

These simpletons, most who have never even seen Harare, would be labeled as criminals for possessing these stones. Is that fair? Is that what you consider justice?

And what of the Mugabe regime? Well they will take their fine diamonds and fly them to the CEEC in Kinshasa (the other small guys dont have enough money to do this) and will get a KP certificate saying they are from Mbuji-Mayi. So you have made the poor poorer and the Mugabe regime chugs along.

I understand that the documentary must have been very entertaining and motivating. But finding a solution is always harder than pressing a button.

Diamonds make up a very small part of the regimes funding. NGO's make up the bulk of it. People dont like to discuss that.

To blame diamonds for some one being evil seems to be misplaced. They should kill this guy and move on. If you put Zim in the KP cert program it wont fix anything.
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Old 09.08.2011, 09:15
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television 8/8/11

Zuger, it was a shocking documentary and it doesn't matter what the commodity was from your list above, it didn't lessen the blow when listening to those people who had been victims of torture or who had witnessed massacres of friends and colleagues.

Yes, in some cases it does feed families but it comes at a heavy risk - those that can feed their families by being "unauthorised" diamond hunters risk being imprisoned, tortured or shot on site.

The rest of the wealth seems to filter no further down than Mugabe's mates and his military commanders.

I don't think it was the commodity that most viewers focussed on, it was the shocking and appalling manner in which people were treated.

Worse, the guy from the KP seemed to be on another planet entirely.
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Old 09.08.2011, 12:19
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Re: Mugabes Diamonds BBC-1 television 8/8/11

been shown on many occasions the KP is worthless as there is no real way to know the true origin of a stone, just because its exported from a counrty doesnt mean it was mined there
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