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  #121  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:19
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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I would agree with you on that issue - unfortunately the mods are constantly trying to keep pace with all threads - some of them fast-moving as this one - and there mergance will not always please everyone. I would suggest you keep posting but just refer to the issues that you want - ignore the MD part. Hopefully the thread will find it`s way back to the more social issues that you wanted to address.
As far as I can see the current postings are dealing almost exclusively with speculative issues and if that is not enough, then it`s down to sniping (that was unfortunate, sorry) about each other`s terminology.
It seemed quite clear to me that UPT was refering to taxis in a generic term - as a non Londoner, I did think that they called all taxis `black cabs`.
One thing is for sure and that is if you go out on the streets of the UK with a gun - be it a real gun, a replica or even a realistic looking toy gun - then sooner or later you should be prepared to face an armed police response. That can and often will end in a split second decision resulting in a fatality. That is something that the `gun` holder HAS to accept.
We, as the critical public, have all the time in the world to pull the police to pieces. The press demand information instantly and so leaked tit-bits become chinese whispers and all sorts of further damage is done before the truth comes out - which can ONLY do so after forensic, ballistic and PCC investigations are complete.
Too true about the 'chinese whispers'.
I remember one from many years ago which started off as 'send reinforcements we're going to advance' and ended up as 'send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance'.
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  #122  
Old 10.08.2011, 14:56
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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4/ Because they have permission from the Home Secretary or Scottish Ministers, all Police Authorities can and do legally use expanding ammunition. They use it to a) increase the stopping power of their weapons and b) to reduce the likeliehood of injuries to others either by through-shots or by ricochet.


Here endeth the first lesson.
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There are no cops in Europe NOT using deformation bullets for the exact reason that they want the bullet to stop the bad guy without endangering anyone around him.
Indeed they have permission and indeed they do. I was simply trying to point out that while obviously lacking that information, people assume ab initio and by default that the Met is operating according to its own agenda.

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If you say UK leg bans them then it appears the Met are acting of their own free will above the law again.
As long as that type of prejudice is present, I can't see how a balanced debate can be had. It appears innocent until proven guilty only works one way, because "the Met has a history of doing it". As opposed to weapons-carrying lowlifes, who obviously don't?
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  #123  
Old 10.08.2011, 16:22
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

You know, I think this could all be a simple case of mistaken identity by the the police, the person they were really after was is a notorious international hitman, wanted in connection with an attempt to assassinate a head of state, his name? Alexander Duggan.











(Aka "the Jackal", once inpersonated by Edward Fox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackal_(The_Day_of_the_Jackal))
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  #124  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:13
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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the "magic" JFK bullet managed this i think
I have JFK thread for that!

It looks like the police messed up *sigh* but still to me most police and those in the armed forces are public service heroes. I know that there are bent coppers, but I don't personally know any really nasty ones, in fact all the ones I know are great guys. My cousin is a Policeman in Nottingham, the police station was firebombed.
I don know that the special forces and riot police do not always receive adequate training, although procedures are constantly under review.

So there must be an investigation, However the results won't be known for a long time, going by the amount of time it has taken to investigate these matters in the past- surely that needs to be addressed.


I am surprised at operation Trident though. It makes no sense to me to restrict the gunrunning to the 'Black' community. The 'Blacks' will just give them to the 'non-Blacks'. How to confuse a trident investigator?

Hedgehog of death you are fighting a losing battle, you have been sidelined from the original Tottenham Riot thread and brought down. I just quit the Tottenham Riots thread when I looked at the vote. The majority of voters believe that rioters are opportunists and that the cause has nothing to do with social injustice. It reminds me of lynch mob mentality.

Still, the message for me being very anti-gun, is don't carry a gun! I do wonder though, if they had been following a Caucasian person licensed to carry a gun in a sock, would they have killed him, or let him go because he did not fit the Trident profile?
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  #125  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:15
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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I have JFK thread for that!

It looks like the police messed up *sigh* but still to me most police and those in the armed forces are public service heroes. I know that there are bent coppers, but I don't personally know any really nasty ones, in fact all the ones I know are great guys. My cousin is a Policeman in Nottingham, the police station was firebombed.
I don know that the special forces and riot police do not always receive adequate training, although procedures are constantly under review.

So there must be an investigation, However the results won't be known for a long time, going by the amount of time it has taken to investigate these matters in the past- surely that needs to be addressed.


I am surprised at operation Trident though. It makes no sense to me to restrict the gunrunning to the 'Black' community. The 'Blacks' will just give them to the 'non-Blacks'. How to confuse a trident investigator?

Hedgehog of death you are fighting a losing battle, you have been sidelined from the original Tottenham Riot thread and brought down. I just quit the Tottenham Riots thread when I looked at the vote. The majority of voters believe that rioters are opportunists and that the cause has nothing to do with social injustice. It reminds me of lynch mob mentality.

Still, the message for me being very anti-gun, is don't carry a gun! I do wonder though, if they had been following a Caucasian person licensed to carry a gun in a sock, would they have killed him or left him; because he did not fit the Trident profile?

ffs

here you go

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11420337

rich, connected, white, lawer with fully licensed gun shot dead by police

please go troll some other forum


eta

have you any idea what operation trident is ??

in fact, have you any idea about anything??
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  #126  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:18
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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It reminds me of lynch mob mentality.
... and several hundred youths going round kicking the crap out of passers-by doesn't?
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  #127  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:25
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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... and several hundred youths going round kicking the crap out of passers-by doesn't?

Ah bless, they were just playing a new game, it's called "Happy Kicking" - there were plenty of people taking piccies too, probably to circulate on that new Chavtastic Social networking forum: InyerFacebook
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  #128  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:29
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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"Happy Kicking"
Change the first vowel, and I'm in.
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  #129  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:33
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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I have JFK thread for that!

It looks like the police messed up *sigh* but still to me most police and those in the armed forces are public service heroes. I know that there are bent coppers, but I don't personally know any really nasty ones, in fact all the ones I know are great guys. My cousin is a Policeman in Nottingham, the police station was firebombed.
I don know that the special forces and riot police do not always receive adequate training, although procedures are constantly under review.

So there must be an investigation, However the results won't be known for a long time, going by the amount of time it has taken to investigate these matters in the past- surely that needs to be addressed.


I am surprised at operation Trident though. It makes no sense to me to restrict the gunrunning to the 'Black' community. The 'Blacks' will just give them to the 'non-Blacks'. How to confuse a trident investigator?

Hedgehog of death you are fighting a losing battle, you have been sidelined from the original Tottenham Riot thread and brought down. I just quit the Tottenham Riots thread when I looked at the vote. The majority of voters believe that rioters are opportunists and that the cause has nothing to do with social injustice. It reminds me of lynch mob mentality.

Still, the message for me being very anti-gun, is don't carry a gun! I do wonder though, if they had been following a Caucasian person licensed to carry a gun in a sock, would they have killed him, or let him go because he did not fit the Trident profile?
No private citizen in the UK is licensed to carry a gun in public (aside from locked in a secure case, to and from shooting ranges), sock bound or not...is this not abundantly clear from all the previous posts, or are you just looking to troll?

Last edited by StirB; 10.08.2011 at 17:34. Reason: Clarified who is allowed to carry a gun for the pedants...
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  #130  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:35
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

If MarkD pulled a gun on the Old Bill, then what happened begins to make more sense. You'd have to be flaming bonkers to go for your pistol when the cops are bearing down on you with guns loaded.

The only thing that confuses me is the bullet in the radio, latest news is that it was a police issue bullet. If it can be established that MarkD had a gun, no matter what condition it was in then the cops need to establish that they acted in self defence. Lets face it the pigs aren't everybody's cup of tea, but they do a dangerous job and sometimes people forget that. Sad story none-the-less.
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  #131  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:36
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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ffs

here you go

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11420337

rich, connected, white, lawer with fully licensed gun shot dead by police

please go troll some other forum


eta

have you any idea what operation trident is ??

in fact, have you any idea about anything??

The picture in the oink that you posted says it all- a man brandishing a shot gun in a stand-off seemingly aiming it at police officers. It's a bot different to chasing a guy down in a cab whom it seems may b=even be a case of mistaken identity. No, I don't know much about Trident, the first I learned of it was on this thread. I would like to know more and will endeavour to find out.

All I know is this from Wikipedia:

Quote:
Operation Trident or Trident, is a Metropolitan Police Service unit set up to investigate and inform communities of gun crime in London's black community, with special attention being placed on shootings relating to the illegal sale of drugs. The initiative was set up in March 1998 by members of the black community following a series of shootings in the London boroughs of Lambeth and Brent. The Chairman of the Trident Independent Advisory Group (IAG) is Claudia Webbe.
and now for Boris the bumbling baffoon.

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The service ( Met) has now apologised to the family, but it seems too late to quell the anger that is spilling over as the mayor of London Boris Johnson found when he returned from holidays and tried to address people in Clapham.

BORIS JOHNSON: …many more police on the streets.

CLAPHAM MAN: What about Mark Duggan? What about the response to his family?

(Noise from crowd gets louder)

BORIS JOHNSON: We are going to make sure - we are going to make sure - ah no, by the way, can I just - that's a very good point.
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...1/s3289818.htm
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  #132  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:36
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

What is the source of the story that Mr Duggan concealed his weapon in a sock, and why are we so certain that it was a gun?


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  #133  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:38
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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The only thing that confuses me is the bullet in the radio, latest news is that it was a police issue bullet.

could be any number of reasons, 1 copper either side of the car,bullet passes through his arm and hit copper on other side, ricochet, copper misfired, or just plain missed the target, possibilities are almost endless
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  #134  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:39
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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chasing a guy down in a cab whom it seems may b=even be a case of mistaken identity.
Erm... you know that the Alexander Duggan thing was a joke, right?
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  #135  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:41
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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The picture in the oink that you posted says it all- a man brandishing a shot gun in a stand-off seemingly aiming it at police officers. It's a bot different to chasing a guy down in a cab whom it seems may b=even be a case of mistaken identity. No, I don't know much about Trident, the first I learned of it was on this thread. I would like to know more and will endeavour to find out.

All I know is this from Wikipedia:



and now for Boris the bumbling baffoon.



http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...1/s3289818.htm

so you realise that operation trident isn't just some random thing then? they would have been watching him for quite some time, and he wouldn't have been the angel some people are making him out to be

and flouncing off one thread doesn't mean you start to troll another
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  #136  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:44
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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could be any number of reasons, 1 copper either side of the car,bullet passes through his arm and hit copper on other side, ricochet, copper misfired, or just plain missed the target, possibilities are almost endless
Has anyone considered that the illegal firearm he had in his possession was actually a stolen police issue gun, or that it was filled with stolen police issue ammo?
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  #137  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:45
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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so you realise that operation trident isn't just some random thing then? they would have been watching him for quite some time, and he wouldn't have been the angel some people are making him out to be

and flouncing off one thread doesn't mean you start to troll another
Oh thanks for that, bigblue. I thought trident was chewing-gum
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  #138  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:50
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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All I know is this from Wikipedia
That should be your signature.
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  #139  
Old 10.08.2011, 17:52
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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Change the first vowel, and I'm in.
First consonant?
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Old 10.08.2011, 17:55
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Re: Mark Duggan shot and killed by London police

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so you realise that operation trident isn't just some random thing then? they would have been watching him for quite some time, and he wouldn't have been the angel some people are making him out to be

and flouncing off one thread doesn't mean you start to troll another
Mistakes have been made- false information acted on. We don't know yet!

Duggan shouldn't have been carrying a makeshift gun, even for his own protection. The police may have made a mistake.

No I didn't know that no-one is allowed a permit to carry a gun in the UK. thank goodness for that. My sister lived with a Caucasian security guy who was constantly cleaning his arsenal in the UK. I told her to get the hell out of there and come live with me.

I am used to friends here in the US who carry guns and badges.
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