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  #21  
Old 23.08.2011, 13:11
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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That's cheap for National Pride and prestige. A bargain.
Same argument in Switzerland for the F-5E Tigers of the Patrouille Suisse and the PC-7 Team. National pride and prestige. Our ambassadors at home and abroad.
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  #22  
Old 23.08.2011, 18:33
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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They also perform a great marketing role for the RAF and Britain.
With all the talks of military cuts, there is the same discussion for the Blue Angels, the U.S. version. The same answer was given. They are the best recruitment tool the Navy (Blue Angels) and Air Force (Thunderbirds) have.

And regarding why this crash has generated so much news? Most pilots don't have a meet and great, with pictures, the day before.
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  #23  
Old 23.08.2011, 18:57
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

So will all my signed posters of the Red Arrows, Blue Angels, Tricolori become collector's items?
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  #24  
Old 23.08.2011, 19:03
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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So will all my signed posters of the Red Arrows, Blue Angels, Tricolori become collector's items?
No.

They won't even become collectors' items.
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  #25  
Old 23.08.2011, 19:21
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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So will all my signed posters of the Red Arrows, Blue Angels, Tricolori become collector's items?
You've got signed posters? OMFG! I am soooo jealous.
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  #26  
Old 23.08.2011, 19:32
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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You've got signed posters? OMFG! I am soooo jealous.
I wonder what they would get on "Swap Shop" ?
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  #27  
Old 23.08.2011, 22:16
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

I don't know if it's £8.8 million a year or not. A lot of their costs are offset by event fees and sponsorships anyway. But if it is £8.8 million, then that's a rounding error in the MOD's £40 billion budget. If the Reds go, what's next? The Spitfires, Hurricanes and Lancasters of The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight?

If they have to, I'm sure the bean counters in the Civil Service could raise the cash. They could slap a tax on bankers bonuses for a start and call it sponsorship.
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  #28  
Old 23.08.2011, 22:33
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

I honestly feel that there is no substance in any disbanding rumours, neither was this pilot error. Judging by the video, prima facie it looks like a control error in the plane. There seemed to be a complete lack of lift, so perhaps elevator/hydraulics failure. Or perhaps the pilot was blacked out and didn't attempt lift. G-Suit failure ? The plane came out of the turn and just continued down, so something happened in the turn if you ask me.

The only outcome, IMHO , would be a maintenance review, the manoeuvres themselves are practiced to clockwork precision and accuracy, so not much can be done with them. Nope, sorry, I just can't see a break-up.
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  #29  
Old 23.08.2011, 23:07
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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No.

They won't even become collectors' items.
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How many collectors own the item?
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  #30  
Old 24.08.2011, 00:51
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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Same argument in Switzerland for the F-5E Tigers of the Patrouille Suisse and the PC-7 Team. National pride and prestige. Our ambassadors at home and abroad.
Not so much "national pride + prestige". On the good side a real entertainment value and a really beautiful spectacle. On the negative side of course A) pride and prestige of the armed forces and B) advertising for the military service. I long ago got into favour of the "Breitling" methods. The two organisations "Patrouille Suisse" and "PC-7" should get privatised. For example the "Patrouille Suisse" being owned by Nestlé and the PC-7-Team by COOP would make the whole matter far less militaristic !
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  #31  
Old 24.08.2011, 01:12
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

Reports suggest that the crash may have been due to a bird strike. It also appears as if he had tried to eject. Dorset Echo
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  #32  
Old 24.08.2011, 02:45
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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Reports suggest that the crash may have been due to a bird strike. It also appears as if he had tried to eject. Dorset Echo
There are no informed reports currently out there in tabloid-land.


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"A full Service Inquiry into the details of the crash has been initiated. It would be inappropriate to speculate on the causes of the incident at this time."
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  #33  
Old 26.08.2011, 00:46
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

From what I hear on the grapevine, the Arrows will be cleared to - and will resume - an 8-ship display (which basically means it wasn't a hardware problem).

It doesn't bring the guy back but, as sure as God made little apples, it's what he'd have wanted too.

Others details will wait 'til, well, later
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  #34  
Old 26.08.2011, 00:59
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

Running through the scenarios, would a bird strike indicate to the pilot he should eject or try and regain control/power, or heroes as they are,did he fly the plane clear of housing knowing his fate ?

On the other hand , reports from people said they heard the plane roar by just before it crashed, would a bird struck engine still produce power and noise ?
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  #35  
Old 26.08.2011, 01:05
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

Although the Red Arrows have been cleared to fly, they have not confirmed if they will fly again this year

BBC News
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  #36  
Old 26.08.2011, 01:11
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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"extremely unlikely they will do any more displays this year"
. .
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  #37  
Old 26.08.2011, 01:21
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

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Running through the scenarios, would a bird strike indicate to the pilot he should eject or try and regain control/power, or heroes as they are,did he fly the plane clear of housing knowing his fate ?
It wasn't a bird strike, and he never exceeded 60deg bank (2G) in the break to land so no GLOC, and his seat was 0/0 - so it's a very good bet that he rode it in to avoid ground casualties.

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Although the Red Arrows have been cleared to fly, they have not confirmed if they will fly again this year
As of next Tuesday (30th), they will be practicing their 8-plane display at Scampton. The team's "fallback" position is always an 8-man team, there is no "substitute" (how could you possibly substitute in any one of 9 positions? ), and the only time they don't fly is when Red 1 (the team leader) is incapacitated.

Last edited by weejeem; 26.08.2011 at 02:02. Reason: They fly home on the 26th, and deserve a break...
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  #38  
Old 26.08.2011, 01:27
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

And here's something in passing

"To apply for selection to the [Red Arrows] Team, pilots must first meet certain criteria:
  • They must have a minimum of 1,500 flying hours.
  • They must have completed a frontline tour.
  • Be assessed as being above average in their flying role.
"
Above average, for someone who has min 1500 hrs under their belt,and frontline service.
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  #39  
Old 26.08.2011, 10:33
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

From witness statements, it sounds as though he did eject. The seat was separated and the pilot and parachute were pulled out of the river by a local resident. The pilot was seriously injured or dead before he was pulled out.

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Nick Woods, 36, told how he discovered the pilot's body in the Stour.

Mr Woods was enjoying a barbecue with his family about 300 yards from the river. The dozen or so family and friends, including his parents and his three-year old son Archie, heard the roar of the jet at about 1.50pm.

"It came in so low across the field. I could see it was in trouble," he said.

"I just shouted "Everybody inside!" because I didn't know how far it would spread when it crashed.

"The next moment my friend Finlay shouted 'He's down!'

"It just sounded like an explosion when it hit – no flames but a huge ripping sound. I saw debris flying in the air.

"Finlay and I ran across the field. The Red Arrow was on the bank. We jumped into the water, found the ejector seat, pulled it up, but it was clean – no-one in it.

"I swam across the river and saw the parachute, and that's where I found him.

"He was near a steep bank, in deep water. He was very badly injured, dead. I was pretty shaken.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-in-crash.html
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  #40  
Old 26.08.2011, 10:49
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Re: Red Arrows Crash

Ejected too late ?
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