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  #41  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:00
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Re: Occupy America

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Question for you: who was responsible for 9/11?
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There are more questions than answers. I do not know.
Good question and always a good test

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Are you kidding me? Of course this is a significant protest, especially when compared to the nonsense that was taking place in England.


Personally, I think you yourself are a bit un-/misinformed if you think that these protests aren't significant in their their size/impact. It's already reached a global audience and is growing by the day. Things like this don't go unnoticed. What the outcome will be is a mystery
Has there been one protest against economic reality that has EVER been successful or made a change? Maybe there has....but I can't think of one
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Old 04.10.2011, 12:03
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Re: Occupy America

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So what exactly does your employer "produce"?

The riots are against the type of business you are in. They see "wall street" as the problem, not the solution.

The protests will lead to nothing, as always. I don't think it takes some conspiracy theory to accept that the world is run by an extremely small number of people. In the US it's what? Maybe the fifty richest families that give out enough cash during presidential campaigns to effectively decide who wins. Not only directly but even more through the many companies they own through many channels. So it is absolutely not transparent who actually supported which candidate - even if there are some lists to pretend there is clarity.
Of course could in theory the voter decide differently, but well, if the many ads wouldnt work they would not spend the billions on them would they?

I never understood why Americans continuously bang on "freedom" - from what I see do they have less of it than most Europeans, even if they are allowed to buy a gun at wal mart. Looks like a huge gap between the claims and the reality.
How is it not transparent, when you yourself, know it's 50 richest families?
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  #43  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:04
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Re: Occupy America

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Yes it is a job. But it will not pay cost of living and student loans. So then why get a degree if your only hopes for employment are just above the poverty level.
So shall we all go and be actors and actresses, and howl when there aren't enough parts to go round and somebody has to wait tables instead?

It's true, the money and effort you put into a degree can turn out to be a good investment or a bad one. What's not true is that having made the investment you have a subsequent right to expect any particular return on it (i.e. ability to land a job in your field.) It's great when it works out that way but it can't always... and the more popular a particular degree is with students, the greater likelihood that it won't work: you will glut the market and eventually some of you will have to do other things. That's not because jobs "don't exist", it's because you and your agemates chose to train yourselves for the wrong mix of jobs.
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  #44  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:12
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Re: Occupy America

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Has there been one protest against economic reality that has EVER been successful or made a change? Maybe there has....but I can't think of one
...probably because most protests get seen as an opportunity for political capital and get sidetracked, manipulated, corrupted or ruined by people who seek any opportunity to rip stuff up and beat on people under the cloak of the original demonstrators, who of course bear the brunt both from the media and the police for whatever happens.
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  #45  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:15
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Re: Occupy America

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...probably because most protests get seen as an opportunity for political capital and get sidetracked, manipulated, corrupted or ruined by people who seek any opportunity to rip stuff up and beat on people under the cloak of the original demonstrators, who of course bear the brunt both from the media and the police for whatever happens.
That'll be a "no" then
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  #46  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:17
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Re: Occupy America

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It's easy for highly skilled or highly educated persons working in Switzerland where the unemployment rate is about 2.1% to think that everyone who wants a job can just go get one...brilliant.
Nope, I don't think for a minute it's that easy - not for older people, and not for those unable to relocate, e.g. families with one spouse still working. Certainly not in my home county, which was (still is) one of the hardest hit areas in the nation.

Even there though, college graduates mostly can land a job - with some effort, and provided they are willing/able to relocate - even if it may not be the sort of job they were hoping for. California Dreamer's "MBA bartenders" are the classic example. That's not failure, that's a success story. That's somebody who has made the leap of logic. "My skills are not in high demand relative to the supply. Oh crap! What can I do? I know, I'll get some other skills that are in demand. Oh look, here's a job tending bar, I'll apply for that."
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  #47  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:33
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Re: Occupy America

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That'll be a "no" then
That'll be a "but I can't think of one" ...probably because...

...maybe there was one, but any changes that it invoked were ninja done on the sly. Seen plenty of that, though it was ultimately self-serving, like staying out of jail.
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  #48  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:47
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Re: Occupy America

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How is it not transparent, when you yourself, know it's 50 richest families?
I made a guess. If that is transparency for you, the USSR was completely transparent - everyone knew how it worked...
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  #49  
Old 04.10.2011, 12:54
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Re: Occupy America

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I made a guess. If that is transparency for you, the USSR was completely transparent - everyone knew how it worked...
I'm just saying I disagree with you.
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  #50  
Old 04.10.2011, 13:20
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Re: Occupy America

I hope to "god" that living here in CH never makes me lose compassion for all of those people in the world who really have to struggle financially through life. Sometimes I do feel a bit spoiled by my own life situation and the fact that I now live where I do.

Anyways, I think it's foolish for anyone to really judge the situation in the US unless they have lived there for quite some time and have really experienced the job market and economic crisis there. I come from one of the hardest-hit parts of the US (near Detroit), and in the main newspaper there, there are now (for example) only 5 jobs listed under the "office/administrative" section -- whereas there were always at least 30 to 50 jobs listed in that section 10 years ago.

I have a friend who is single and raising a 5 year-old daughter. She was laid off from her job as a paralegal, and it took her almost a year to find another job, after sending out resumes daily -- and these were even for very low-paying jobs. She was desperate and willing to take anything, after being forced into the realization from early on that she was going to have to settle for much less than she would prefer, in the way of salary, benefits, etc.. So finally she ended up being hired and paid much less than her previous job. She lost her home and had to move back in with her parents until she's able to save enough money to get her own place again.

Sadly, many Americans find themselves in similar situations right now.

It's not very often that a thread on the EF really gets my blood boiling, but this one has certainly succeeded. I am truly in shock by the lack of compassion in some of the posts here.
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  #51  
Old 04.10.2011, 13:23
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Re: Occupy America

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Even there though, college graduates mostly can land a job - with some effort, and provided they are willing/able to relocate - even if it may not be the sort of job they were hoping for. California Dreamer's "MBA bartenders" are the classic example. That's not failure, that's a success story. That's somebody who has made the leap of logic. "My skills are not in high demand relative to the supply. Oh crap! What can I do? I know, I'll get some other skills that are in demand. Oh look, here's a job tending bar, I'll apply for that."
But is it really a "success story" when the job they have to take doesn't even pay enough to cover their student loans? Besides, you have to admit that the cost of higher education in the US is much too high -- and is inaccessible for many.
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  #52  
Old 04.10.2011, 13:25
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Re: Occupy America

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It's not very often that a thread on the EF really gets my blood boiling, but this one has certainly succeeded. I am truly in shock by the lack of compassion in some of the posts here.
That's a shame...maybe explains a bit why I got groaned by you, but still not really sure why

Anyway, what is the answer to the problem?
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  #53  
Old 04.10.2011, 13:39
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Re: Occupy America

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That's a shame...maybe explains a bit why I got groaned by you, but still not really sure why

Anyway, what is the answer to the problem?
I'm sorry... it usually takes a lot for me to groan at someone (I don't do that very often). But it was for the lack of compassion/understanding that I sensed when you wrote:

"That's because you understand that you get what you work for....and don't sit around blaming The Man"

I'm not sure where you're from (I forgot to look), but wages are quite low in the US, and many people who work minimum wage jobs work just as hard and as often as those who do make enough money to comfortably support themselves. Also, not everyone blames "the Man." My friend (the one I mentioned above) certainly doesn't. What she does blame, though, is an employer who would rather lay her off and then hire someone willing to work for less.

I'm not sure what the answer is to the problem(s), but I do know that there need to be some major changes in the US, at all levels. And in particular, I think there need to be some better laws in place when it comes to employees' rights.
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  #54  
Old 04.10.2011, 13:42
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Re: Occupy America

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Anyway, what is the answer to the problem?
Return to the gold standard, end corporate welfare, and stop policing the world. For starters.....
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Old 04.10.2011, 13:47
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Re: Occupy America

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...and stop policing the world. For starters.....
Yeah, no doubt. I find it so hypocritical that the US goes around acting as though it can save the world and knows what's best for it -- and yet it can't even take care of its own people.
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Old 04.10.2011, 13:47
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Re: Occupy America

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I'm sorry... it usually takes a lot for me to groan at someone (I don't do that very often). But it was for the lack of compassion/understanding that I sensed when you wrote:

"That's because you understand that you get what you work for....and don't sit around blaming The Man"

I'm not sure where you're from (I forgot to look), but wages are quite low in the US, and many people who work minimum wage jobs work just as hard and as often as those who do make enough money to comfortably support themselves. Also, not everyone blames "the Man." My friend (the one I mentioned above) certainly doesn't. What she does blame, though, is an employer who would rather lay her off and then hire someone willing to work for less.

I'm not sure what the answer is to the problem(s), but I do know that there need to be some major changes in the US, at all levels. And in particular, I think there need to be some better laws in place when it comes to employees' rights.
Thanks for the explanation anyway.....my comment was meant to be a positive comment towards the poster who "got on with it" and got a job rather than blaming somebody else.

Maybe it does show lack of compassion....I hadn't really thought about it....but I have a view that if somebody has the time and wherewithall to organise a protest, they can probably find a job. I don't mean that EVERYBODY can, because there aren't enough jobs to go around....

However.....a little like your post too.....its easier to protest about something being wrong than it is to suggest what is better. No system in the world has proven more effective for creating wealth for the whole planet than capitalism. But.....there are side effects and individual people and countries can and will suffer
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  #57  
Old 04.10.2011, 13:48
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Re: Occupy America

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Return to the gold standard, end corporate welfare, and stop policing the world. For starters.....
What's corporate welfare and why is it bad?

And why is the Gold Standard better?
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Old 04.10.2011, 13:54
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Re: Occupy America

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....but I have a view that if somebody has the time and wherewithall to organise a protest, they can probably find a job. I don't mean that EVERYBODY can, because there aren't enough jobs to go around....
But it's not only the jobless that are pissed at "the system" and are seeking change. Besides, I don't think that one day of participating in a protest is going to make that much of a difference when you've already been spending every day for the past few months sending out resumes and receiving little to no response. Besides, you need to realize how truly helpless many of these people feel, because of the situation. If these protests are one way for them to feel empowered and a spark of hope for some real change, then let them do their thing.
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Old 04.10.2011, 14:00
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Re: Occupy America

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Yeah, no doubt. I find it so hypocritical that the US goes around acting as though it can save the world and knows what's best for it -- and yet it can't even take care of its own people.
Why can't America take care of it's people any worse then say, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Civil war Era Lebanon, North Korea, Serbia, who have I left out recently?
Astonishing examples of welfare and taking care of their people(Like Sadam took care of the Kurds in the north)

Every country has it's problems, but I don't find if we think sitting on our hands while people are getting round up and raped then executed en masse, or at the very least the political systems of the above mentioned are in any way positive to their citizens, again has anything to do with how we figure out our own social services.

It's so easy to point a vague finger, but name me one "perfect" social or banking system with out it's problems?
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Old 04.10.2011, 14:00
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Re: Occupy America

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What's corporate welfare and why is it bad?
Well, it's true that America has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world (and this is one of the reasons so many US companies move their headquarters here to Zug, for example). But the problem with corporate welfare and bail-outs, tax breaks, etc. is that the money doesn't trickle down to the employees. Instead, the CEOs, stockholders, etc. just get fatter paychecks and more benefits. So meanwhile, the rich get richer but the poorer still get poorer...
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