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  #101  
Old 05.10.2011, 11:49
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Re: Occupy America

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The biggest problem with the United States is the risible belief that "the pursuit of happiness" is a right.

.

No one (that I know) believes this is a right. But you do have a right to pursue life, liberty and happiness and no one should have the right to take that away or interfere.

Pursue- to strive to gain; seek to attain or accomplish (an end,purpose, object, etc.).
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  #102  
Old 05.10.2011, 11:55
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Re: Occupy America

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I think the first step is to wake the people up. Most people don't have a clue about the inner workings of our gov't, CIA, military industrial complex, or our monetary policy, or even our foreign policy (which is run by Israel) THEN, we can discuss alternatives. Which would be to basically overthrow our current gov't either by election or by revolution or even by force from within. I know a few elite Marine units are ready for this, just waiting for the green light. Its hard for me to explain the inner workings of our "system" as very few people know about it or how incest it is. The easiest alternative that packs the most power for the punch would be to just return to the gold standard and reinstate our Constitution. If your accomplish these two things all the other problems will sort themselves out in due time.

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. - Henry Ford.
...well, you see, that's why communism failed. The idea you can tear everything down to the same level and build back up from there.

No, what you need are some strong individuals with the clarity to bring about some stability while fixing what needs to be fixed. Unfortunately, the current politics are such that there are many willing to wreck anything that they can't own while obscuring the paths to common sense and renewal.
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  #103  
Old 05.10.2011, 11:58
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Re: Occupy America

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...well, you see, that's why communism failed. The idea you can tear everything down to the same level and build back up from there.
Seems to me that's how America got started, yes?
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  #104  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:01
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Re: Occupy America

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Seems to me that's how America got started, yes?
No, America started out of the the wilderness owned by the indians, and it might be better if they started heading back that way.
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  #105  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:09
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Re: Occupy America

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That is the most retarded fu#k thing I have heard this entire thread. Did you copy that from some economics book from 1947? This drivle is completely out of touch with reality. And what does credit have anything to do with corporate welfare? And why do people assume every American is up to their eyes in debt? I have been debt free my entire life and so has the rest of my family. Typical "stereotyping" from someone who has no clue. And congratulations that you were able to read an economics book from eras past.
It has nothing to do with Corporate Welfare because there isn't such a thing as Corporate Welfare.

Why is what is true, pre 1947, not true today? Food hasn't gone away to be re placed by some synthesis injection. You are attacking subsidies as some pseudo direct deposit to rich people to do nothing. It's what you said. Like how ashamed we should all be when all this open farmlands are sitting un used, when we all know we get injected every morning.

Want to debunk me try using facts other then f"k, it sounds childish at best.
Well Americans, obviously some more then others, are up to their ears in debt, on a national government and per capita. It's true, I went a bit off subject there, clearly no one else does in these threads. I apologize.

So tell me, why is my drivel completely out of touch with reality?

Oh and as far as paying for oil exploration within the US, I mean we could just buy all our oil from places in the Middle East, Venezuela, And Russia...I can see that's working out just fine. Lovely what they have done with the money in terms of our best interests in our own national security.
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  #106  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:19
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Re: Occupy America

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Ah, OK....so the answer to the global economic downturn which is causing Americans to lose jobs is a coup d'etat?

And who then runs the country? A name if you have one would be great.

And what does that person do to create jobs?

Also - why do you judge your fellow countrymen/women as too stupid to understand the political system? Isn't that a bit insulting?

This is more than just an economical downturn. Thats like complaining about flies in a sewer.

Who would run our country in a coup d'etat? Obviously the Commanding General but only temporarily. Names I cannot give as they are shadows within our system, but who have very famous last names. And since when is it our gov'ts responsibility to create jobs? Is that not for the private sector?

Not "too stupid" as I did not say that, just not informed. Or misinformed would be a better word.

Thats all I can say about that.
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  #107  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:22
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Re: Occupy America





..................
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  #108  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:27
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Re: Occupy America

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One of the problems in the U.S. is too many people want to take the easy paths through life. They expect the, "American Dream" to be handed to them.
They would rather fill in a bubble for a politician that will, for the sake of their votes, pilfer the pockets of those who earn/create wealth, than make decisions to develop marketable job skills, work hard at a job, budget their money and forego luxuries.
Many of these same people who complain about the price of healthcare/insurance have the latest Droid/Iphone with an unlimited plan and/or a car on rims, a big-screen television with cable/satellite, Xbox/PS3 (and a huge library of games). They have unsecured debts, little-to-no savings, and live paycheck-to-paycheck. They don't see how these choices, their own choices, are what's truly keeping them back. They are put up on the Gilded Pedestal of the "Less Fortunate." From this lofty position, they blame everyone more fortunate than themselves for their own shortcomings.
Then there are those people, who study hard in school, develop marketable job skills, work hard, live below their means, save money for the future, do without some or many of the fancy things in life, contract little-to-no debt, and have a plan to handle a rainy day or two, or three, or four. When these people become financially independent, they are reviled as "cheaters," or "lucky" and the "less fortunate" rail against them, instead of trying to emulate their example. Many of these people quietly accept the fact that an increasing percentage of their hard work, the sweat off their backs, is taken in the form of taxation and redistributed to the "less fortunate," who have done nothing to earn this money, save exist, and the only significant thing these "less fortunate" people will do is add to their own swelling ranks.
The problem is that, in the U.S. there are, and always will be, more of the former class than of the latter class; and in a country of, "one person, one vote," the "less fortunate" will always have the votes to redistribute money from the successful individuals, in the name of "fairness." This, in turn, creates an increasing disincentive on the part of anyone to achieve past a certain point, and so economic growth and wealth become stagnant.
Examples of this include the behavior of the credit and housing markets in the U.S. over the past decade. Policies were put into effect in the U.S. with the intent of creating greater access to credit and greater home ownership, an "ownership society," the premise being that if the "less fortunate" are allowed more equal access to these two things, they would improve their economic situation. What ended up happening was entirely the opposite: people with abysmal or no credit were approved for loans on over-inflated properties (each a reason the mortgage should never have gone through) and the level of unsecured debt in America soared to new heights, even when adjusted for inflation. Now we have massive regulation on the credit card industry, driving up the cost of compliance, which is laid at the feet of those whose only fault was that they did not default on their credit card. Now we have the values of homes slashed, in some cases, more than in half, punishing people who have done nothing wrong but pay their mortgage on time.
To many of these protesters, the "American Dream" of a house in the suburbs with a nice car, two kids and a dog, and a nice vacation every year (or whatever your version of it may be), is a right to be given them by the government. But the unavoidable reality is that this dream can only be achieved by truly earning it.
I can think of dozens of people I know back home, all from different income classes, education, etc who fit that mold you are talking about.

I hate it when people stereotype, but in this case it's very much on point.

I was talking to a some one I know back home, and telling him I had a phone that cost something like 30 dollars. He laughed at me and told me if I was living in Switzerland I for sure had to have something atleast like his, which is an Iphone as well. I mean, why does he need that? He is filing for bankruptcy, and yet he has 800 dollar a month car payments, 2 cars at that, just bought a home he couldn't afford, while 4 smaller homes he owns goes into delinquency for taxes he hasn't paid in years, his new home, he has owned for 6 months now hasn't paid one payment, and has left that home to go south, where he rents a house for 3000 a month on the ocean, while he isn't even working again yet. They keep finding a way to give him credit. And thru all this, he blames every one else for his problems.

He had a business before, a family business, where he was too timid to collect on debts owed to it, thought it would be bad for business to collect on debts owed for new business. But the thing was that was "OK" because he still had income from all the credit coming his way.

And I can think of at least 20 different people with these kind of problems, and they are blaming the government, Obama, and the banks.

I think if I told a story like this 30 or 40 years ago, people would have thought this guy or others were some how criminal. But it has become the accepted norm to get things we don't need (ex Droid phone versus Nokia POS phone, isn't the base reason to own a phone to make "phone calls" on it? We need more pay phone stalls maybe) first on impulse-like fast food, and push off the things that are there every month, like the bills to pay for the things we really do need.


I am sure there are others that don't though have these problems, but there are far too many stories that I know, as opposed to the normal people stories. And just to say, my family was never more in the debt then the house they bought. And that was a good price as well. Everything else was straight cash, and utility bills were paid heavily in advance. My dad always liked knowing where he would be in his household budget every month.
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  #109  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:35
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Re: Occupy America

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No, America started out of the the wilderness owned by the indians, and it might be better if they started heading back that way.
"Owned by the Indians"? Native American culture has no belief system in the ownership of property. There fore when the Red faces came, and traded a few blankets and beads for Long Island, the Indians accepted the token gestures. But America was mostly born on the eastern seaboard, if you want to be technical about it.

I don't see Casino-economics as the solution for getting us out of the todays current issues, but thanks for the idea.
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  #110  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:40
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Re: Occupy America

...blaming Obama while they handcuff, gag and stuff him in the broom closet until he is willing to play yessa boss janitor is a laugh.
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  #111  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:46
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Re: Occupy America

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Thats all I can say about that.
why? what will happen?
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  #112  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:48
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Re: Occupy America

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I am sure there are others that don't though have these problems, but there are far too many stories that I know, as opposed to the normal people stories. And just to say, my family was never more in the debt then the house they bought. And that was a good price as well. Everything else was straight cash, and utility bills were paid heavily in advance. My dad always liked knowing where he would be in his household budget every month.
Between the Brits who appear to have moved here from Chav-istan in the UK and the Yanks who only seem to know debtor douchebags, I'm starting to understand the vehement defense of der Schweiz by the expats here.

The US has 400 million people and I didn't know a single person so shamelessly in debt. Maybe I'm just lucky, but most folks I know/have known are hard working folks who pay their bills.

The current economy wasn't brought on by folks taking on too much debt or buying too much house. If you believe that, you need to do a bit more reading.
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  #113  
Old 05.10.2011, 12:54
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Re: Occupy America

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It has nothing to do with Corporate Welfare because there isn't such a thing as Corporate Welfare.

Why is what is true, pre 1947, not true today? Food hasn't gone away to be re placed by some synthesis injection. You are attacking subsidies as some pseudo direct deposit to rich people to do nothing. It's what you said. Like how ashamed we should all be when all this open farmlands are sitting un used, when we all know we get injected every morning.

Want to debunk me try using facts other then f"k, it sounds childish at best.
Well Americans, obviously some more then others, are up to their ears in debt, on a national government and per capita. It's true, I went a bit off subject there, clearly no one else does in these threads. I apologize.

So tell me, why is my drivel completely out of touch with reality?

Oh and as far as paying for oil exploration within the US, I mean we could just buy all our oil from places in the Middle East, Venezuela, And Russia...I can see that's working out just fine. Lovely what they have done with the money in terms of our best interests in our own national security.
Your last comment is spot on, sorry about the crud remarks this morning I was rather annoyed about something else. No harm intended.
I could write a book about this subject and yes corporate welfare does exist. In fact thats how you could sum up our "free market".
Instead of typing for the next hour I'll just post this instead. Yes I am lazy. (2.5 hours sleep, sorry)

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  #114  
Old 05.10.2011, 13:08
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Re: Occupy America

I think it is a huge misconception that all Americans live way beyond their means. Yes, it is true that *some* Americans do, but certainly not the majority.

A lot of people seem to have this vision of the "typical American" being someone who lives in a huge house with two SUVs parked in the driveway, etc. But that's not the case, and I think that anyone who traveled extensively throughout the US would see and realize that for themselves. Most Americans do struggle financially -- but it's not because they have racked up too much debt due to frivolous spending on crap like IPhones, etc. Many Americans, for example, still drive cars that were made in the 1990s (I notice this every time I go back to visit). And because home-ownership is common in the US, many American adults do owe a significant amount of money for their mortgages, so it's pretty much impossible for many or most Americans to really live debt-free until at least their 30-year mortgages are paid off.

Anyways, I think that the problem is very multi-faceted, and while I do realize that it's "trendy" to put down Americans and accuse them of being greedy, excessive, etc. -- the fact is that many Americans are, at this point, simply happy to be able to keep a roof over their heads and food on their plates. And sadly, this has, in my opinion, become the new "American dream."
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  #115  
Old 05.10.2011, 13:20
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Re: Occupy America

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"Owned by the Indians"? Native American culture has no belief system in the ownership of property. There fore when the Red faces came, and traded a few blankets and beads for Long Island, the Indians accepted the token gestures. But America was mostly born on the eastern seaboard, if you want to be technical about it.

I don't see Casino-economics as the solution for getting us out of the todays current issues, but thanks for the idea.

...well, guess I don't know much about history 'n stuff, but you can imagine the shock and amazement of the Chesapeake People when my direct ancestors landed in 1661 with a parchment from some Lord dude in England saying all their land belonged to my folks, some of it still does.

...they didn't even get no beads. Too bad they didn't have no New York savvy.
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  #116  
Old 05.10.2011, 13:33
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Re: Occupy America

Here would be a revolution through elections.




Why is the media scared of Dr. Ron Paul?

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Old 05.10.2011, 14:37
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Re: Occupy America

Sorry, but the only debt I have is my house, everything else I paid for in cash, including my car. I am working in Switzerland because I lost my job in the US and didn't want to file bankruptcy or default on my mortgage. I resent the implication that all Americans are irresponsible or not hard working. I could make implications about Switzerland and money that came here from Germany during the early 1940's but I don't feel the need to stoop to such tactics.
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  #118  
Old 05.10.2011, 16:29
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Re: Occupy America

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Sorry, but the only debt I have is my house, everything else I paid for in cash, including my car. I am working in Switzerland because I lost my job in the US and didn't want to file bankruptcy or default on my mortgage. I resent the implication that all Americans are irresponsible or not hard working. I could make implications about Switzerland and money that came here from Germany during the early 1940's but I don't feel the need to stoop to such tactics.

You don't have to apologize, sounds like you're scrapping by!
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Old 05.10.2011, 16:34
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Re: Occupy America

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Sorry, but the only debt I have is my house, everything else I paid for in cash, including my car. I am working in Switzerland because I lost my job in the US and didn't want to file bankruptcy or default on my mortgage. I resent the implication that all Americans are irresponsible or not hard working. I could make implications about Switzerland and money that came here from Germany during the early 1940's but I don't feel the need to stoop to such tactics.
Actually, you just did make that implication. And considering that relatively few posters here are Swiss, that's incredibly unfair.
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  #120  
Old 05.10.2011, 17:13
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Re: Occupy America

I liked the Ron Paul link, though the music was a little too dramatic.
I will say this, there definitely needs to be banking reforms put into place. There was so much behind doing so when the markets were bottoming out, but when people started making money again less. It is strange though. When the world was crashing down in the economics of the union, how there was so much support, and bankers were hanging their heads.

As soon as they start making money again the arrogance is quick to return.
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