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  #41  
Old 10.10.2011, 17:58
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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  • the intimidation of other parties through violence
The (now former) mayor of Spreitenbach who had to resign his post after threats were made to him and his family because he had the temerity to claim that overall, Swiss people and foreigners got along reasonably well might beg to differ.
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  #42  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:02
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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The (now former) mayor of Spreitenbach who had to resign his post after threats were made to him and his family because he had the temerity to claim that overall, Swiss people and foreigners got along reasonably well might beg to differ.
Have you got a link to the story please?
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  #43  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:03
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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Have you got a link to the story please?
http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnew...ns.shtml?26782
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  #44  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:07
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

More details in German here.
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  #45  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:11
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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More details in German here.
And where does the SVP come into it?

Apart from the usual pavlovian "we don't like them so they must have set it up"?
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  #46  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:35
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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If you're going to be that broad, then the test could work with virtually any party...

Works for almost very party. Even the Pirate Party.
What Amogles said, besides, it's just more arbitrary weaseling to "rebut" with smarmy bits like "not possible now" and "not ideological" when you asked for factual differences and got some — and on what "logical" basis do you assert that a propensity towards or against violence is not ultimately an ideological matter?
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  #47  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:35
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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And where does the SVP come into it?

Apart from the usual pavlovian "we don't like them so they must have set it up"?

what SVP picture are ye talking about??
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  #48  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:49
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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And where does the SVP come into it?

Apart from the usual pavlovian "we don't like them so they must have set it up"?
Er... because its campaigns constantly use the imagery pioneered by the Nazi and Stalinist propaganda machines (basic colours, bold slogans, faceless enemies) and constantly portray the enemies of Switzerland as visibly foreign? Because they whole nations as knifewielding madmen? Because they claim that anyone who is not with them is not Swiss?


"Swiss people vote SVP!" / "Germans! Show the system what you think! Vote Hitler!"


Note: "Kosovars", not "a Kosovar"


Black crows picking Switzerland apart - the alleged result of the easing of naturalisation laws


Black and brown hands grabbing Swiss money - the alleged consequences of giving foreigners the vote. The Jew grabbing German money - the alleged consequences of allowing them to live in Germany.



That's what foreigners / jews look like, according to SVP (left) and the Nazis (right).
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  #49  
Old 10.10.2011, 18:53
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

And of course the classic "vote for The Saviour" posters


Last edited by tom tulpe; 10.10.2011 at 18:55. Reason: didn't include Blocher poster
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  #50  
Old 10.10.2011, 19:04
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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You're trolling right?

- The SVP wants Switzerland to stay out of foreign wars (and is the only major party to do so)
- The SVP wants to allow the people to vote over more issues, not less.
- The SVP is against sacrificing democratic rights to a European super-state (and is the only major party to be unambiguously so)
- The SVP has Jewish members
- The SVP has openly gay members, including MPs.

over to you.
when people compare SVP to the nazis it's not so much about the politics, but they way they are presenting it, they have the similar propaganda machine, their "statistics" are completely twisted, they present assumptions as facts and finally, they don't want any solution to the so called "problems" which they are crying about, whenever there is an issue like e.g. nuclear power and the strong franc they have no clue, no approach, totally lost and try to connect all the issues to the foreigners...

SVP doesn't bring anything to the table, when the real problems starts then people will realize what bunch of morons they truly are...
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  #51  
Old 10.10.2011, 19:40
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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when people compare SVP to the nazis it's not so much about the politics, but they way they are presenting it, they have the similar propaganda machine..
It is understandable that people think of the Nazis when propaganda comes up in the debate, but the nature of propaganda does not change depending on who is doing it. Anybody doing propaganda the right way reminds of nazi propaganda, because that's the kind of propaganda that works.
The red-white-black colours also remind me of NPD graphics.
On one hand: Is that Blochers' fault? yes it is, because the SVP/UDC/PPS's coulours are green-yellow like their logos. The prussian neonazi colours are chosen and they obviously don't mind the link.
On the other hand: Do the neonazis own the colour combination red-white-black? No they don't. There is nothing wrong decontextualizing a graphic code and reencode in another context, we do that all the time with the Spanish red-yellow and McDonald (their recent change of colour skeme is interesting as such but would need another discussion).

Short version: colours and graphics are not owned by anybody, they just have connotations in a given society at a given time. The SVP/UDC/PPS are very happy with the conotations of their colour skeme. They can say it's only a connotation, but they can't deny that it is connoted.
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  #52  
Old 10.10.2011, 20:46
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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Ask yourself from a totally practical point of view, if the Nazis wanted to make a comeback today in a serious way, what would they be called, what would their policies be, how would they look?
They never left, just fewer numbers but now are slowly promoting their views and recruiting many very upset nationalistic folks. I am very worried about what is happening.
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  #53  
Old 10.10.2011, 20:58
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

SVP Basel-Stadt file criminal complaint against abusers of Posters

The SVP has against three accused persons filed a criminal complaint that a poster of the party have vandalized. The vandalism of campaign posters in the SVP-2011 have accepted an unacceptable extent. The SVP provides for freedom of expression in danger and urged the population to report such acts immediately.

In the whole of Switzerland, the posters of the SVP in 2011 elections are being vandalized. In most cases, the cowardly perpetrators are not tangible. Basel-Stadt, the SVP has its own need to report in the last 14 days more than 10 damage to property of posters of the APG. The costs associated with wearing the most part, the APG and the parties, because the perpetrators can be identified rare.

Even more pleasing is the fact that it has managed the Canton police, three suspected criminals (born between 1987 and 2x 1990) to get "in flagrante" with the devastation of an SVP poster in Small-Basel. Basel-Stadt, the SVP wants to thank all of you to the police for prosecution and reporting this incident.

The SVP is set against the three accused criminal complaint and would divert the responsibility. By the accumulated damage to property of posters sees the SVP the right to freedom of expression in danger and condemns this - apparently deliberate action, in the strongest terms.

The People's Party calls on the people to report acts of vandalism and alleged offender immediately. The SVP will stand against anyone charged criminal complaint. At the same time, the SVP calls by political opponents of tolerance, respect and decency one - as required by the SVP always.

If you have questions regarding the press release, please contact the President, National Council, Dr. Sebastian Frehner (079 620 71 04) at your disposal.

Swiss People's Party of Basel-Stadt

Translated from here
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  #54  
Old 10.10.2011, 21:34
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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You're trolling right?

- The SVP wants Switzerland to stay out of foreign wars (and is the only major party to do so)
- The SVP wants to allow the people to vote over more issues, not less.
- The SVP is against sacrificing democratic rights to a European super-state (and is the only major party to be unambiguously so)
- The SVP has Jewish members
- The SVP has openly gay members, including MPs.

over to you.
Up until 1933 the Nazi party had Jewish members; in 1933 they were flushed out - only a matter of time.
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Old 10.10.2011, 23:48
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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Up until 1933 the Nazi party had Jewish members; in 1933 they were flushed out - only a matter of time.
In the case of the SVP, it's not even a matter of time. Not a single foreigner is an SVP member.
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  #56  
Old 11.10.2011, 00:07
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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In the case of the SVP, it's not even a matter of time. Not a single foreigner is an SVP member.
Not true - I even know some. You don't need to be Swiss to join a political party.
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  #57  
Old 11.10.2011, 00:17
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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An interesting perspective. From an ideological perspective only, what differences to you see between the SVP and the Nazi Party of, say 1929.
a justified question, true. But the NSDAP already at its start was as totalitarian as it was when in power. The SVP by comparison is NOT totalitarian. There however are 3 scenarios, important in view of the the fact that the SVP of today looks similar to the Deutsch-Nationale Partei of the 1920ies (the party of the big industrialists)
A) a far-right section of the SVP splits away and becomes a separate party, but together with the SVP comes to power and finally takes full dictatorial power
B) an extreme far-right party gets founded and together with .......
C) the SVP as a whole comes under the leadership of a new and extremely right-wing leader and captures the majority and establishes its dictatorship

All three scenarios really are worst-case-scenarios and rather unlikely to happen but ought to be kept in mind ..............................

************************************************** *****************************

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- The SVP wants Switzerland to stay out of foreign wars (and is the only major party to do so)
-
All major parties also are determined to keep Switzerland out of foreign wars, and all major parties are to continue neutrality

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- The SVP wants to allow the people to vote over more issues, not less.
-
as do the other parties

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- The SVP is against sacrificing democratic rights to a European super-state (and is the only major party to be unambiguously so)
-
No, the other parties also are against sacrificing democratic rights to such a super-state.

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- The SVP has Jewish members
-
Most parties have Jewish members and the Social-Democratic Party is the only one who had a Jew in the Federal government

************************************************** **************************************** $¨$


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Is anybody in the SVP good at making speeches?

If there is any good rhetoric out there it must be a well kept secret.

Or am I missing the sublimal message in the OP's photo?

Mr Blocher is very good in rethorics. And do not forget that this man who always talks as if he only spoke CH-German speaks Standard German excellently well, and also speaks English, French and Italian very nicely.

Mr Alfred Heer of Zürich is exceedingly good in intrigues but a bit of a boring personality. Mr Tony Brunner right on Monday showed that he is boring as a person. Prof Dr Mörgeli is a demagogue but with no charisma. All this means that the SVP in the end depends on just the aging business tycoon from Hallau/Herrliberg

************************************************** **************************

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Berlusconi, is that you?
Not as far as you possibly think. The man in question has a daughter whose parents-in-law are big industrialists in the Lombardy, and the CH Ayatollah is close friend with them. And WHERE is Mr Berlusconi from ?

************************************************** ******************************

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National Socialism meant socialism (lots of welfare benefits) but just for the Nation. It was originally internally focussed and pragmatic.
No, it never was pragmatic as outlined in "My Kampf" and it right from its start was focussed on getting Lebensraum for Germany and on re-establishing the pre-1914 German borders

***

Last edited by Wollishofener; 11.10.2011 at 00:56.
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  #58  
Old 11.10.2011, 05:58
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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Translated from here
I'm not sure that run through Google actually qualified as a "translation" this time around. ;-) Hard to follow, that's for sure!

This whole debate is a bit silly. It's a very typically American (and, apparently, British) tactic to demonize your enemy rather than discuss the merits/flaws of what he has to say; in fact, it's the biggest complaint my Swiss friends have about American politics. Regardless of their immigration stance, for instance, the SVP has a (in my opinion) somewhat ok stance on other issues. But to try to compare them to the Nazi party, knowing full well what that connotation means in this part of the world, shows a rather petty spirit at best.
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Old 11.10.2011, 09:23
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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Looking at the original poster..It looks like it is dumped at the side of the road.
Yeah, Castro gets like that sometimes.
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Old 11.10.2011, 09:27
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Re: SVP exposed in Basel

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An interesting perspective. From an ideological perspective only, what differences to you see between the SVP and the Nazi Party of, say 1929.
Erm, the Nazis were socialists (clue is in the name), the SVP most definitely are not.
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