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  #141  
Old 19.10.2011, 16:23
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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I mentioned it earlier. I have read some sickening things about little girls being abandoned to die in China, maybe to some people girls are just unimportant.
I think of every race on the planet, it's the Chinese who now realise the value of girl. They upset the natural balance of society and now have many other social prices to pay for that.


But keeping on topic, and again listing further quotes from the recent update:

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Authorities in Foshan presented Chen Xianmei, a rubbish collector who went to Yue Yue's aid, with $1,570 as a reward.
Another company in the city has also offered to donate $7,500 to her family and rescuer.

Many people in China are hesitant to help people who appear to be in distress over fears they will be blamed.
High-profile law suits have ended with good Samaritans ordered to pay hefty fines to individuals they sought to help.

The incident has also sparked a series of soul-searching articles in Chinese newspapers, including the Guangzho Daily and People's Daily Online.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1bEWL0Dwj

...... I can't change the font size for some reason this time, so sorry for the overly large quote.


I do think this quote reflects our perception of Chinese apathy, although I was glad to see that Chinese papers are provoking thoughts about their society.
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  #142  
Old 19.10.2011, 16:59
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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I had been intentionally ignoring this thread because I didn't think it would have such legs, but now I'm behind on the comments.

Has the idea been broached about China's one child policy and the impact it has had on the value of little girls? Any speculation as to if that had anything to do with how this little girl's fate came to be?
You have to go back a bit and read my other post on this thread

Chinese families, those still subject to the one-child rule, prefer boys as they can work, bring back money for the family, and traditionally take over the farming duties (farm land isn't owned outright in China). However, that may explain a very slight difference in how a parent would treat their OWN child. The one-child policy doesn't apply to "rural" (农民) people much nowadays, precisely to stop the practice of people aborting girls and waiting for a boy. And city dwellers either pay the fine that comes with having two kids, or aren't worried so much about their children having to provide for their old age. Plus, in first and second tier cities, job opportunities for woman are not far off those for men.

Someone else's boy or girl ... makes no difference. People don't think "ah, shit, look at that! Oh, it's a girl, parents won't want her anyway, I'll walk on by".
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  #143  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:36
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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Oh the irony



just for some double irony
Ironically, she's using "ironic" incorrectly there.
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  #144  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:36
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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When you all stop massaging your egos and look at it in the light of day and ask yourself why you really want to see a baby being crushed by a van.
Hoslo, I think you could do with taking a look closer to home.

While I agree that there may be a place for a debate about the merits and ethics of videos like this being posted, your whole superior confrontational self righteous attitude does nothing to help your case and if anything can be seen as a real insight and glimpse into the projection of YOUR own 'holier than thou' ego.

I have chosen not to watch the video because I don't want such images embedded in my consciousness. However, that is a personal choice which is right for me and I equally understand other people choosing to watch it. I also do see the potential value of enough people watching it and being shocked, saddened, moved and motivated enough that it will have a positive impact on some level, provoke change and hopefully that some small good may come out of the death of this poor little child.

Being the visual creatures that we are, in general vivid imagery tends to activate our emotions far more successfully than reading or simply hearing about something, hence why charities/NGO's/voluntary groups etc have been using distressing and heartbreaking images as part of their aid campaigns for decades to stimulate the heartstrings and in turn the purse strings! It has become an increasingly contentious issue in the development world known as 'development porn' which is seen by many as the gross exploitation and de-humanisation of extremely vulnerable people and arguably often does more damage than good. These images are usually one-dimensional and not representative of the entire country, region or people as a whole and tend to perpetuate misconceptions (particularly in the Western world) of the reality of these places which feed ignorance and even fuel racism etc. The question isn't as simple as: Does the end justify the means? but what is the end?

Getting back on track, if, like someone mentioned here, this whole incident and it being publicised worldwide results in some serious soul searching and healthy debate resulting in real change, well that can only be seen as a good thing. If it results in further media suppression in China and fuels ignorance, gross generalisations, a sense of superiority and demonisation about a country with a billion plus people, not so good IMHO.....
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  #145  
Old 19.10.2011, 19:15
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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In china, most people think whatever happens is fate , bad luck so why interfere, why try and save people? Kids sit at the front in cars, no seat belt, they even stand up. I got really mad sitting in the car of my husband's chinese bosses , a millionaire chinese family who let their 3 year old move back and forth from the front of the car to the back seats, standing in between the parents with the gears in the middle !!!

If something happens , well it's not in their hands, like watching this little boy dying. After living 4 years in Shanghai, it does not surprise me
I'm sorry Olympe, but based on such sweeping generalisations it sounds to me like you didn't get to personally know many chinese during your stint there and does not make you a moral authority in this case. I must say if I was chinese I would be highly offended by your comments.

I grew up in Ireland in the 80s when it was quite normal for many (if not most) people to not to wear seat belts and where there often were no seat belts in the back at all, let alone the special baby seats, bumper seats etc that we have today. I spent many a happy hour as a toddler lying up under the window on top of the back seat during family car trips. Certainly not the safest and would of course not be acceptable by today's standards. However, I didn't realise this was a reflection of my parents lack of love and care for me. Is it too late to call social services.

Who would have guessed that implementation of EU laws (enforcing seat belts etc) would also result in Irish parents loving their children more overnight? Amazing!

While there might be culturally specific issues related to this case I believe for the most part it comes down to poverty where scenes like this can be seen world over in countries where abject and seemingly infinite levels of poverty and desperation exist.
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  #146  
Old 19.10.2011, 22:01
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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I'm sorry Olympe, but based on such sweeping generalisations it sounds to me like you didn't get to personally know many chinese during your stint there and does not make you a moral authority in this case. I must say if I was chinese I would be highly offended by your comments.
Not really Nastarana, everyone who lived in China could confirm the generally very lax attitude towards safety.



Kids are often left alone because parents are at work if grandparents can't help out, which seems to have been the case with the poor toddler as well, as the mother only noticed much later that her kids was in an accident.



And there's a general disregard for the wellbeing of others in mainland China, which indeed is a huge topic for Chinese netizens who often put the blame for China's moral decline on capitalism, corruption, a society without values, the disintegration of communities, the get rich first-attitude or any combination of them.

And last but not least let's not forget that China is in many cases still a very poor country with little respect for life.
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  #147  
Old 20.10.2011, 11:54
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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And there's a general disregard for the wellbeing of others in mainland China, which indeed is a huge topic for Chinese netizens who often put the blame for China's moral decline on capitalism, corruption, a society without values, the disintegration of communities, the get rich first-attitude or any combination of them.
While I fully agree with your post, one small difference: Most Chinese I know would actually blame communism, or to be more precise the extreme changes Mao did with the Chinese society. But they are of course not stupid enough to post this on the internet...
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  #148  
Old 20.10.2011, 11:59
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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While I fully agree with your post, one small difference: Most Chinese I know would actually blame communism, or to be more precise the extreme changes Mao did with the Chinese society. But they are of course not stupid enough to post this on the internet...
True, but moral decline afaik is blamed on capitalism, while deculturalisation and dehumanisation is blamed on the cultural revolution. Not sure if one can differentiate between the two but Chinese largely agree among themselves that things aren't as they should be and condemn Chinese society in much stronger terms than anything we've written here.
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  #149  
Old 20.10.2011, 16:34
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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True, but moral decline afaik is blamed on capitalism, while deculturalisation and dehumanisation is blamed on the cultural revolution. Not sure if one can differentiate between the two but Chinese largely agree among themselves that things aren't as they should be and condemn Chinese society in much stronger terms than anything we've written here.
Well, but to be honest: I find it more than smug reading comment like "only in China" here and on other websites: I cannot find it online, but the German TV made a test some years back - an elderly actor pretended to have a stroke in the middle of a packed pedestrian area on a Saturday afternoon. It took more than 15 minutes till the easily 50th passer-by asked him "are you ok?".
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  #150  
Old 20.10.2011, 16:49
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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Well, but to be honest: I find it more than smug reading comment like "only in China" here and on other websites: I cannot find it online, but the German TV made a test some years back - an elderly actor pretended to have a stroke in the middle of a packed pedestrian area on a Saturday afternoon. It took more than 15 minutes till the easily 50th passer-by asked him "are you ok?".
Well you know why I have hesitated to post here but FWIW Wikipedia reference-linkBystander_effect
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  #151  
Old 20.10.2011, 16:55
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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Even when someone did help the little girl, she was picked up as if she was a rag doll...
To be fair, she would react like a rag doll after being run over several times and it's understandable if the woman who intervened wanted to move her out of the way of other vans.

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I don't think we need to visually see everything that is disgusting to be just as shocked or to believe if it is true or not. ...I think it's macabre to watch something like that, especially if in the title it says what is going to happen.
Very true. Having clicked on the video, I do not feel good about choosing to do so. It is gratuitous and it's not as if watching it or having virtual discussions about it will undo what happened.

Last edited by Reb77Br; 20.10.2011 at 17:17.
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  #152  
Old 20.10.2011, 19:43
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

On-topic another story:

Again?! Caucasian woman helps man lying on street in Xi'an

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Netizens have even given the Good Samaritans the nickname of "Yang Lei Feng" (洋雷锋), which means "Foreign Lei Feng", in reference to a model soldier held up in China as a propagandistic paragon of selflessness.

Just last week, it was reported that an American woman jumped into Hangzhou's West Lake to save a woman trying to commit suicide.

And today, the trial for the mentally disturbed student who stabbed his mother at Pudong Airport began, which was another incident where the only person who stopped to help was a foreigner.

All of which stands in contrast to the quite everyday occurrence of Chinese standing by to watch someone lying on the ground without getting involved somehow, regardless of the situation.
http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/20/ag...ps_man_lyi.php

Meanwhile the People's Daily (party paper) reports that the girls condition worsened and the garbage collector who (hopefully) saved her life fled the city.

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Chen Xianmei, the only one to lend a helping hand among the 19 people who passed by the little girl after she was hit, left Foshan because she became fed up with malicious slander and the harassment from hundreds of media outlets.

The 1.4-meter-tall illiterate woman, 58, has seen her personal life turned upside down after the accident, which garnered her overnight fame.

She has been contacted hundreds of times for media interviews. Her cell phone was ringing all day long and many reporters packed her apartment for face-to-face interviews, prompting her landlady to threaten to end her lease.

Most people acclaimed her as a moral role model against the other 18 indifferent passers-by. Some people whom she didn't know smiled at her wherever she came around.

On the other hand, some people challenged her purpose for doing what others dared not do for fear of extortion from victims and their families. Chen and her family members had been asked whether she did this to become famous, which hurt her badly. Some annoying neighbors wanted to know how much award she earned through the incident.

Chen's son was very angry and said, "My mother cannot read newspaper at all. Why will she want to become famous?"
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  #153  
Old 21.10.2011, 09:25
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

So so sad....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15398332


Chinese toddler left for dead in hit-and-run crash dies

Warning- contains original graphic video
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  #154  
Old 21.10.2011, 09:31
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

Oh no!

I have been constantly thinking of this little girl and hoping against all odds that she would pull through. How incredibly sad.
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  #155  
Old 21.10.2011, 14:21
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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Well, but to be honest: I find it more than smug reading comment like "only in China" here and on other websites: I cannot find it online, but the German TV made a test some years back - an elderly actor pretended to have a stroke in the middle of a packed pedestrian area on a Saturday afternoon. It took more than 15 minutes till the easily 50th passer-by asked him "are you ok?".
But yeah, you're right of course, it's unfortunately a global phenomenon, albeit a bit amplified in (mainland) China.
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  #156  
Old 21.10.2011, 17:55
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

I too, kept hoping she will somehow wake up and be ok... so, so sad... Rest in peace baby girl...
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  #157  
Old 21.10.2011, 18:02
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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Ironically, she's using "ironic" incorrectly there.

actually not to go way off track here. But the fact that a song called "ironic" describing many situations which aren't really ironic as ironi,c has quite the level of irony to it.
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  #158  
Old 25.10.2011, 10:17
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

Trucker hit boy... then ran over him again to be sure he'd died 'because it was cheaper than paying for hospital bills'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1bm9FzwhI
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Old 25.10.2011, 11:11
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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Trucker hit boy... then ran over him again to be sure he'd died 'because it was cheaper than paying for hospital bills'
Says a witness. Police (and driver, but that's a given) say different.

Unfortunately, in a country where image is more important than the truth, it's also in the police's (and the local government, and the CPC - Communist Party of China) interest to say this was a simple road accident, so as to not inflame the comments regarding a general lack of morals and a "money talks" attitude which leads straight back to the CPC itself.
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Old 26.10.2011, 04:04
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Re: Shocking scenes as passers-by ignore dying toddler, 2, in China

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I'm sorry Olympe, but based on such sweeping generalisations it sounds to me like you didn't get to personally know many chinese during your stint there and does not make you a moral authority in this case. I must say if I was chinese I would be highly offended by your comments.
I lived 4 years in shanghai, gave birth to my second baby in a chinese hospital and my husband was the only foreigner working for a chinese company in rural china. We talked about this little girl in the staffroom at my school in Hong Kong with the mandarin teachers last week and they didn't deny that the mentalities need to change just like things need to improve in other places. and who talk about moral authority there? As a foreigner my oby agreed to tell me the sex of my baby during a scan but that is often not allowed . This is not generalisation this is a fact and my experience.
We have a friend ,in a early thirties who was rised up by her aunt but totally bullied and considered like nothing just because she was a girl. SHe had a very sad childhood. That is not generalisation but the experience of a friend. things do improve but still.

Last edited by olympe; 26.10.2011 at 05:54.
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