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  #61  
Old 13.12.2011, 00:12
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Re: Srike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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Odd place to visit - 7 foreign nationals killed in a steel factory.

North Koreans ? Syrians ? Sheffielders ?
maraging steel experts?
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  #62  
Old 13.12.2011, 00:20
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Re: Srike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

Uranium is metal - may come in handy in bombs (for peaceful uses, as the nice Mr. A explained)
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Old 13.12.2011, 01:50
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Re: Srike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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Odd place to visit - 7 foreign nationals killed in a steel factory.

North Koreans ? Syrians ? Sheffielders ?
Russians ? Ukrainians ? Chinese ? Japanese ?
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  #64  
Old 13.12.2011, 11:38
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

I am Iranian Journalist and I believe any kind of war helps the dictator regime to more suppress people and opposition; BTW the regime is not so strong as its propaganda's claims!
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  #65  
Old 13.12.2011, 11:54
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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I am Iranian Journalist and I believe any kind of war helps the dictator regime to more suppress people and opposition; BTW the regime is not so strong as its propaganda's claims!
Thanks for posting. How do you gauge the actual warlike rhetoric emanating from Teheran? It seems to us in the west that most of the middle class, professional side of Iranian society is at best, just tolerating the radical government and the anti-everything student ranks when their preference would be for a more European style standard of life.

Its clear that Iran would stand alone in the Middle East if any conflict occurred, only Syria may be a potential ally. Even the normally neutral-by-default Saudis would like to see a more pro-western, or at least more peaceful régime in Iran. At some point, it becomes difficult for the Iranian Government to keep up the propaganda war without having any events occur, that may be the spark that initiates an Israeli or US led attack on Iran's nuclear centers.
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Old 13.12.2011, 14:16
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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I am Iranian Journalist and I believe any kind of war helps the dictator regime to more suppress people and opposition
The Libyans might not agree. NATO made the difference between failure and success over there.
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  #67  
Old 14.12.2011, 22:35
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

Anyone seen an obituary for an Iranian journalist in the last day? Would be nice to get a response back from Omid.
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  #68  
Old 15.12.2011, 16:27
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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The Libyans might not agree. NATO made the difference between failure and success over there.
Libyan ex-rebels still hold 7000 people without trial, subject them to torture, UN reports

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/s...ers/51438864/1
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  #69  
Old 30.12.2011, 17:17
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

sorry just was busy during new year; first of all if you take a look at the protest movement after the election show in 2009; the regime totally lost the remained legitimacy; so it is the matter of time; students; women; workers and middle class people will have a great role in the future radical changes, about Libya, there is a huge social-economical difference between two countries, I am not sure many Iranians like a military intervene by US, this is the job should be completed by Iranian people.
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Old 31.12.2011, 00:12
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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Libyan ex-rebels still hold 7000 people without trial, subject them to torture, UN reports

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/s...ers/51438864/1
Actually the report you quote says "subject some of them to torture" which is not good but a lot less sensational than you wrote.

Then in the case of libya (or Iran) you have to figure how many people are currently being tortured & has (or will) this number increased or decreased due to a change of regime. Difficult to asses & hard to figure out if this is a benefit or not?
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  #71  
Old 31.12.2011, 02:07
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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I am not sure many Iranians like a military intervene by US, this is the job should be completed by Iranian people.
Iranian people had like 30 years to move the ayatollahs out of government. What makes you think they are going to achieve it now?

In any case, even though I think its a shame to have theocracies ruling a country in this century, its really none of my business how people want to be governed. What really bothers me, is a theocracy with a combo of nukes and long range missiles.

I am 100% in favour of blasting those sites by any means necessary.
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  #72  
Old 31.12.2011, 02:42
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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I am 100% in favour of blasting those sites by any means necessary.
Would you be in favour of bombing North-Korean nuclear sites, too?

I find it quite understandable, actually, that Iran would want to aquire nuclear weapons in its situation (imo it is not proven beyond reasonable doubt, that Iran in fact is close to developing nuclear weapons) its major competitor as a regional power in the middle east is known to be nucleary armed. Further there are enough examples of nuclear powers being left alone by western powers (Pakistan, North-Korea).

In my opinion the only possibility to convince Iran of not wanting to develop nuclear weapons, is to talk to them on an equal level and acknowledge their status as a local power. Any talk leading to a fruitful outcome, would of course need to include the possibility of a nuclear disarmament of Israel.
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  #73  
Old 31.12.2011, 22:44
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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Would you be in favour of bombing North-Korean nuclear sites, too?
No, its too late. That's the point: you have to strike them pre-nuke

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I find it quite understandable, actually, that Iran would want to aquire nuclear weapons in its situation (imo it is not proven beyond reasonable doubt, that Iran in fact is close to developing nuclear weapons) its major competitor as a regional power in the middle east is known to be nucleary armed.
Comprehensible, given the neighbourhood. And in any case, Israel is a civilized and democratic society that keeps its radicals under control. You have to understand that there is a huge difference between having a nuke-capable Israel and a nuke-capable Iran. Have you read what the spiritual guide of Ahmadinejad (who he visits on a weekly basis) writes?

If you can't see the difference, I guess this discussion is pointless.

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Further there are enough examples of nuclear powers being left alone by western powers (Pakistan, North-Korea).
Pakistan is, again, nuke-capable, its too late. And anyway, it shows some restraint and collaboration with the West (yes, we know they support the Taliban as well).

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In my opinion the only possibility to convince Iran of not wanting to develop nuclear weapons, is to talk to them on an equal level and acknowledge their status as a local power. Any talk leading to a fruitful outcome, would of course need to include the possibility of a nuclear disarmament of Israel.
Not a single chance that Israel disarms and it will make no sense for their security. You don't speak with ayatollahs on an equal level. Remember, they are there because God wants them to be there. You don't have to accept them as a local power, at least not yet. That's the whole point: they already have the oil, don't let them have the nukes.

The West has to act against Iran, otherwise they will just prove, once again, their degree of stupidity and decadency in handling a crisis.
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  #74  
Old 01.01.2012, 04:14
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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Would you be in favour of bombing North-Korean nuclear sites, too?

I find it quite understandable, actually, that Iran would want to aquire nuclear weapons in its situation (imo it is not proven beyond reasonable doubt, that Iran in fact is close to developing nuclear weapons) its major competitor as a regional power in the middle east is known to be nucleary armed. Further there are enough examples of nuclear powers being left alone by western powers (Pakistan, North-Korea).

In my opinion the only possibility to convince Iran of not wanting to develop nuclear weapons, is to talk to them on an equal level and acknowledge their status as a local power. Any talk leading to a fruitful outcome, would of course need to include the possibility of a nuclear disarmament of Israel.
About "Further there are enough examples of nuclear powers being left alone by western powers (Pakistan, North-Korea)."

Why do you think being a nuclear power is the major factor?

There are other factors like Pakistan is not overtly threatening anybody (except India who are also a nuclear power) & is also a very large country/population which would be hard to subdue. I would not say they are being left alone when there are regular drone strikes & border incidents.

Same story for North Korea, there is a lot of rhetoric but little in the way of real threats plus they have the worlds fourth largest army which would be difficult to subdue.
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Old 01.01.2012, 10:01
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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There are other factors like Pakistan is not overtly threatening anybody (except India who are also a nuclear power) & is also a very large country/population which would be hard to subdue. I would not say they are being left alone when there are regular drone strikes & border incidents.

Same story for North Korea, there is a lot of rhetoric but little in the way of real threats plus they have the worlds fourth largest army which would be difficult to subdue.
Both Pakistan and North Korea are what I would classify as "extremely fragile". Although it is a fact that Pakistan went nuclear because its close cousin India went the same route, the inherent instability and lack of governmental control makes Pakistan a tinderbox beyond where Afghanistan is today and with a far better infrastructure to support terrorism worldwide with whatever means. If you believe that the Americans are in Afghanistan just to install a stable régime in Kabul, you are not seeing the big picture. That whole area is out of control and I would contend that the Iranian, Afghani and Pak border the least stable area on this planet.

North Korea is unpredictable, but no one has an issue with the population. Much as the Cold War pre 38th Parallel boundaries have divided a united people akin to Germany, it has only been the lunatic northern military commanders willing to keep the pseudo war footing as a daily reality. Keeping North Korea barely fed just to maintain some fake military power is immoral and unsustainable for very much longer. Pity those that have no idea what the real world is outside of the communist rhetoric.
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  #76  
Old 01.01.2012, 15:32
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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Actually the report you quote says "subject some of them to torture" which is not good but a lot less sensational than you wrote.

Then in the case of libya (or Iran) you have to figure how many people are currently being tortured & has (or will) this number increased or decreased due to a change of regime. Difficult to asses & hard to figure out if this is a benefit or not?
The war in Libya was sold to the public as a humanitarian mission. Is this difficult for you to figure out if this is a benefit or not? How many people would you personally torture in order to save how many of others?
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  #77  
Old 01.01.2012, 16:54
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The war in Libya was sold to the public as a humanitarian mission. Is this difficult for you to figure out if this is a benefit or not? How many people would you personally torture in order to save how many of others?
No answer, because the principal of torture is immoral to start off with. Not that that stops anyone in power from trying to assert themselves using whatever means possible to try and achieve more power to fulfill their goals.

Events in Libya only finally turned when the west had simply had enough of Gadaffi and chose to assist the rebels. Fact is, whilst the oil was flowing and not too many state sponsored terrorists were blowing B747s out of the sky, your immoral political western European leaders were more than happy to be seen shaking hands in Tripoli to keep their source of energy topped up. There are never long lasting "right decisions" in politics, every choice is only as good as it seemed at the time. History will determine the effectiveness from another perspective, it's always been that way.
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  #78  
Old 01.01.2012, 17:30
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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The war in Libya was sold to the public as a humanitarian mission. Is this difficult for you to figure out if this is a benefit or not? How many people would you personally torture in order to save how many of others?

A lot of lives were saved. So it was a successful humanitarian mission. Like all such actions there was/is some collateral damage.
Too soon to judge the overall result today, maybe in 20 years when most/all the facts are known as Assasin wrote.
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Old 01.01.2012, 17:42
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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A lot of lives were saved. So it was a successful humanitarian mission. Like all such actions there was/is some collateral damage.
Too soon to judge the overall result today, maybe in 20 years when most/all the facts are known as Assasin wrote.
Sarkozy and Cameron are famous for their humanitarian view of the world. Didn't Cameron release El-Magrahi after all?
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Old 01.01.2012, 17:45
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Re: Strike on Iran's Military Base. WW3 Anyone?

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Sarkozy and Cameron are famous for their humanitarian view of the world. Didn't Cameron release El-Magrahi after all?
So you want to look at personalities not facts?
Why not if that is your preference?
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