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  #41  
Old 30.11.2011, 18:47
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

Sensitive issue this one.

It is a toughy. You have to be honest and say, from a black and white point of view, if the US and allies can have nuclear weapons, why cant the rest of the world develop their own? But then, does it sit well with you that unstable countries have nuclear weapons? Scary thought. But are they really unstable? Western media will have you believe so. The media will have you believe a lot of things. Goes back to social engineering really, very interesting subject that.

If I put myself in the shoes of an Iranian, I too would be thinking, “who the do these Americans and Brits think they are”. But from my western conditioned mind, I am thinking, don’t let those bloody loonies have nuclear weapons.

But all in all, what does it matter? The US have apparently just developed a weapon that can target any location in the world within an hour or so. By the time a nuclear missile could be deployed it can be blown up.

But then, maybe Dec 2012 will make this all irrelevant anyway
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  #42  
Old 30.11.2011, 19:11
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Go back & do your homework...Iraq was a unilateral action by the US/UK and their mightily armed friends of Palau, Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands etc...Let's not rewrite history, eh?

As for coups, there are too many to count...It's easier to list coups that weren't initiated by the US/UK

I could care less about a propped up apartheid state posing as a 'democracy' like Israel - and last I checked, Iran has never initiated any attacks on any of it's neighbors anywhere...We all know the same cannot be said for Israel - a military state that has flamed wars & regional instability, targeted assassinations, skirted the UN in their own nuclear armament & of course all in the name of eradicating the indigenous people of Palestine

I do enjoy the ignorance of Fox News kids from both sides of the Atlantic - please do continue with the World According to 'Might is Right'
You're blatantly ignoring that Al Qods is fighting proxy wars throughout the Middle East: Hizbollah in Lebanon (they're running the government now!) and what they do to keep Israel paranoid, direct Al Qods intervention as a party backing Shia militias in Irak which ignited an enormous civil war in Irak, and they've sent thugs to help Syria repress their civil uprise. It's not all Nation to Nation in this region, it's faction against faction, and the Iranian are behind some of the nastiest out there. Get real on the facts.

Meanwhile, keeping on topic, UK Government has expelled all Iranian diplomats and closed the London embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran. All British personnel have transferred to the UAE for the time being. We'll see if it goes any further, probably not. Everyone wants Iran to talk to the Sextet ( China, France, Russia, UK & USA, plus Germany) about just how destabilising a nuclear Iran would be to the whole region. That's what matters, not the usual "blame oil & Israel".
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  #43  
Old 30.11.2011, 19:48
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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My point is, the US & UK have disregarded International law at nearly any & every turn...Just because they aren't storming an embassy where perhaps a handful of people can get injured, they have no problem with initiating coups in countless countries (Including Iran) whereby hundreds of thousands are killed, raped, tortured etc....Nevermind the wars, nevermind the financial laws that are skirted or put in place to only benefit those already in power & rich - namely the US & UK

So my point is, spare me the arrogance of trying to preach what International law has been breached because an embassy has been targeted...Nevermind the insufferable saber rattling DC & 10 Downing Street have carried on wrt Iran - we know what this is about, oil & Israel...Let's talk when hundreds of thousands of Americans or Brits endure what so many countries have at the hands of countries who 'respect International law'

Do you have any facts to back up all your cr*p?
For example you state "the US & UK have disregarded International law at nearly any & every turn..." When, where, what? Concrete examples?
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  #44  
Old 30.11.2011, 19:55
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Go back & do your homework...Iraq was a unilateral action by the US/UK and their mightily armed friends of Palau, Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands etc...Let's not rewrite history, eh?

As for coups, there are too many to count...It's easier to list coups that weren't initiated by the US/UK

I could care less about a propped up apartheid state posing as a 'democracy' like Israel - and last I checked, Iran has never initiated any attacks on any of it's neighbors anywhere...We all know the same cannot be said for Israel - a military state that has flamed wars & regional instability, targeted assassinations, skirted the UN in their own nuclear armament & of course all in the name of eradicating the indigenous people of Palestine

I do enjoy the ignorance of Fox News kids from both sides of the Atlantic - please do continue with the World According to 'Might is Right'

More cr*p & still extremely short on facts.

About "last I checked, Iran has never initiated any attacks on any of it's neighbors anywhere"
Concrete examples
  • continually shelling Kurdish villages in Iraq.
  • sending weapons to Lebanon
  • Sending weapons to Palestine
  • bombing of the Argentine Israelite Mutual Association
Wake up & smell the flowers!
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  #45  
Old 30.11.2011, 20:00
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Sensitive issue this one.

It is a toughy. You have to be honest and say, from a black and white point of view, if the US and allies can have nuclear weapons, why cant the rest of the world develop their own? But then, does it sit well with you that unstable countries have nuclear weapons? Scary thought. But are they really unstable? Western media will have you believe so. The media will have you believe a lot of things. Goes back to social engineering really, very interesting subject that.

If I put myself in the shoes of an Iranian, I too would be thinking, “who the do these Americans and Brits think they are”. But from my western conditioned mind, I am thinking, don’t let those bloody loonies have nuclear weapons.

But all in all, what does it matter? The US have apparently just developed a weapon that can target any location in the world within an hour or so. By the time a nuclear missile could be deployed it can be blown up.

But then, maybe Dec 2012 will make this all irrelevant anyway
About "If I put myself in the shoes of an Iranian, I too would be thinking, “who the do these Americans and Brits think they are”.

I have met a number of Iranians but I have yet to meet one who wants their country to build nuclear weapons.
They simply know that if it comes to a conflict over this topic they will be the ones to die while their beloved leaders sit deep underground in well protected bunkers.
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  #46  
Old 30.11.2011, 20:35
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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They simply know that if it comes to a conflict over this topic they will be the ones to die while their beloved leaders sit deep underground in well protected bunkers.
How is that different from any other country? Will "your" leader line up to fight?

Nuclear weapon has the unique power of stopping conflicts before they even begin. This is why noone ever attacked North Korea.

The media is building tension suggesting that Iran will cause a conflict, but if you're open-minded enough than you could also imagine what are the Iranian motives - gear up in time, or face an imminent invasion in the name of piece (or democracy, or whatever somebody calls this).
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  #47  
Old 30.11.2011, 20:43
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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How is that different from any other country? Will "your" leader line up to fight?

Nuclear weapon has the unique power of stopping conflicts before they even begin. This is why noone ever attacked North Korea.

The media is building tension suggesting that Iran will cause a conflict, but if you're open-minded enough than you could also imagine what are the Iranian motives - gear up in time, or face an imminent invasion in the name of piece (or democracy, or whatever somebody calls this).
About "How is that different from any other country? Will "your" leader line up to fight?"

It is different because Iran is in easy range of all the major powers weapons whilst Iran does not have the capability to deliver theirs; a few ballistic missiles of ancient design will not help.

About "Nuclear weapon has the unique power of stopping conflicts before they even begin".
Only if you can achieve the level of "mutually assured destruction" (MAD); which Iran will not do this century.
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  #48  
Old 30.11.2011, 21:03
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

Developing nuclear weapons is leading Iran towards a North Korean future - no one invades it, but that's about it on the plus side.
The minus side is almost total isolation, economic meltdown (Famine is common) - and terrible human rights situation.

The Iranian regime had hard time suppressing the demonstations after the last crooked elections - and that was before the arabs started overthrowing the old dictators (to make room for new ones?). the next elections won't be so easy to rig.
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Old 30.11.2011, 21:23
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Developing nuclear weapons is leading Iran towards a North Korean future - no one invades it, but that's about it on the plus side.
The minus side is almost total isolation, economic meltdown (Famine is common) - and terrible human rights situation.

The Iranian regime had hard time suppressing the demonstations after the last crooked elections - and that was before the arabs started overthrowing the old dictators (to make room for new ones?). the next elections won't be so easy to rig.
The difference between North Korea and Iran is borders. South, it's just one ginormous Iron Curtain. North, China which won't tolerate *any* messing around shipping people out etc.

Iran has borders with loads of people and is surrounded by countries that don't share their version of Islam at the State level. Plus NATO or US are operating on their western and eastern borders. When that finally calms down they might be less vigorous with pushing nasty organisations within all their neighbours and all around Israel hopefully. It might turn to "don't touch we'll nuke you, but no stopping our meddling with all the places that have repressed Shias" or similar. That will be anathema to the Arab monarchies to the South, so then they'll want nukes too. Pakistan already has them thanks to Saudi funds, it wouldn't take long for them to get them. And them Israel becomes slowly surrounded by coutries with nukes that have much larger territory to spare. They have none. So who's to blame in this little game? Looks like Iran to me.
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  #50  
Old 30.11.2011, 23:11
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

Just a quick question, is everyone's source of news Western media? Because despite UK saying that they have sent the Iranian diplomats home, it's actually a bit different. Iran pulled its high-level diplomats back last week I think already. But it's funny to see how this can get twisted around
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  #51  
Old 01.12.2011, 00:00
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

Just a question out of the blue, why IAEA didn't investigate Israeli's +160 nuclear war heads?
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  #52  
Old 01.12.2011, 00:59
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Just a question out of the blue, why IAEA didn't investigate Israeli's +160 nuclear war heads?
Probably because France provided Israel with the tech in the 60s and anti-proliferation IAEA work doesn't really seem to have kicked off till the 80s (this is unverified speculation on my part).


As for the recalling of the Iranian ambassador, yes most Western media I've read has noted this started BEFORE the vote in the Majlis (Iranian Parliament) on Sunday. A lot of them have been detailing the very fraught relation between UK and Iran, including the will of the Iranians to get back land the Shah granted to the Embassy in the 19th century.
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Old 01.12.2011, 02:01
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Hizbollah in Lebanon (they're running the government now!)
.
The Prime Minister
70 35 Najib Mikati 1955– 13 June 2011 Incumbent Glory Movement/March 8 Alliance
is a business tycoon and NOT a Hizbullah man

and State President Michel Suleiman (General Michel Suleiman)

Michel Suleiman or Sleiman (Arabic: ميشال سليمان‎, born 21 November 1948) is the President of Lebanon. Before assuming office as President, he held the position of commander of the Lebanese Armed Forces. After LAF commander Émile Lahoud took office as president in November of 1998, Suleiman succeeded him, taking his place in December. Suleiman was later elected President and was sworn into office on May 25, 2008


is NOT a Hizbullah man either

and the parliament looks as follows

Summary of the 7 June 2009 Lebanese Parliament election results Alliances Seats Parties Seats Government
68
27 Change and Reform bloc Free Patriotic Movement (Tayyar Al-Watani Al-Horr) 19 Lebanese Democratic Party (Hizb al-democraty al-lubnany) 4 Marada Movement 3 Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Tashnag) 2 Solidarity Party (Hizb Al-Tadamon Al-Lubnany) 1 29 March 8 Alliance Lebanese Resistance Detachments (Harakat Amal) 13 Loyalty to the Resistance (Hezbollah) 12 Syrian Social Nationalist Party (al-Hizb al-Qawmi al-souri al ijtima'i) 2 Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party 2 12 Pro-Government Independents Progressive Socialist Party 7 Glory Movement 2 Other 1 Opposition
60
60 March 14 Alliance Future Movement (Tayyar Al Mustaqbal) 26 Lebanese Forces (al-Quwāt al-Lubnāniyya) 8 Lebanese Social Democratic Party (Hizb al-Kataeb) 5 Murr Bloc 2 Social Democrat Hunchakian Party (Social Democrat Hunchakian Party) 2 Islamic Group (Jamaa al-Islamiya) 1 Armenian Democratic Liberal Party (Ramgavar Party) 1 Democratic Left Movement (ĥarakatu-l-yasāri-d-dimuqrātī) 1 National Liberal Party (Hizbu-l-waTaniyyīni-l-aHrār) 1 Independents (including Zahle-Bloc 6) 11 – – Total 128

--


you may have seen how much Hizbullah in the past elections lost against the Amal Party. This was almost sensational

So, to put things short, your statement simply is WRONG
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  #54  
Old 01.12.2011, 08:41
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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The Prime Minister
70 35 Najib Mikati 1955– 13 June 2011 Incumbent Glory Movement/March 8 Alliance
is a business tycoon and NOT a Hizbullah man

and State President Michel Suleiman (General Michel Suleiman)

Michel Suleiman or Sleiman (Arabic: ميشال سليمان‎, born 21 November 1948) is the President of Lebanon. Before assuming office as President, he held the position of commander of the Lebanese Armed Forces. After LAF commander Émile Lahoud took office as president in November of 1998, Suleiman succeeded him, taking his place in December. Suleiman was later elected President and was sworn into office on May 25, 2008


is NOT a Hizbullah man either

and the parliament looks as follows

Summary of the 7 June 2009 Lebanese Parliament election results Alliances Seats Parties Seats Government
68
27 Change and Reform bloc Free Patriotic Movement (Tayyar Al-Watani Al-Horr) 19 Lebanese Democratic Party (Hizb al-democraty al-lubnany) 4 Marada Movement 3 Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Tashnag) 2 Solidarity Party (Hizb Al-Tadamon Al-Lubnany) 1 29 March 8 Alliance Lebanese Resistance Detachments (Harakat Amal) 13 Loyalty to the Resistance (Hezbollah) 12 Syrian Social Nationalist Party (al-Hizb al-Qawmi al-souri al ijtima'i) 2 Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party 2 12 Pro-Government Independents Progressive Socialist Party 7 Glory Movement 2 Other 1 Opposition
60
60 March 14 Alliance Future Movement (Tayyar Al Mustaqbal) 26 Lebanese Forces (al-Quwāt al-Lubnāniyya) 8 Lebanese Social Democratic Party (Hizb al-Kataeb) 5 Murr Bloc 2 Social Democrat Hunchakian Party (Social Democrat Hunchakian Party) 2 Islamic Group (Jamaa al-Islamiya) 1 Armenian Democratic Liberal Party (Ramgavar Party) 1 Democratic Left Movement (ĥarakatu-l-yasāri-d-dimuqrātī) 1 National Liberal Party (Hizbu-l-waTaniyyīni-l-aHrār) 1 Independents (including Zahle-Bloc 6) 11 – – Total 128

--


you may have seen how much Hizbullah in the past elections lost against the Amal Party. This was almost sensational

So, to put things short, your statement simply is WRONG
I stand corrected on that, I did not check my facts on this. But I do seem to remember that Hizbullah have been seriously blocking the Lebanese government's actions of late. I really remember this article: http://www.economist.com/node/17913450 . It can't be considered really current but does explain the weight of Hizbullah at the national level. These people are STILL the tool of Al Qods (the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards "foreign service"), make no mistake.
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Old 01.12.2011, 09:04
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

It appears to me that the same sheep on this forum believe everything the Western Governments and media feed them with.

I would not even be surprised if this is all propaganda for a build up for a war in the middle east by the west.
This would take control of the oil (or make sure nobody else can have it) and it sure would be a distraction from the real financial crisis of the West and could create that "growth" they keep talking about that will never occur in the West for years without a war.

I do not see how the USA / UK can go around telling the world who are good and bad people/countries.
Why should the USA have the right to tell countries who can build nuclear power stations or even nuclear bombs/missiles?

Some of the nicest people I met as a students at college were the Iranians.
And their women were gorgeous.
I was even invited to Tehran before the Ayatolla came along.
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Old 01.12.2011, 09:40
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

Check out your history people. In the past few decades the West has made a mess of their Iranian foreign policies, not least started because they supported a corrupt Shah who ran his country like many others in that area as a dictatorship. Then failing to read the signs with Khomeni urging a revolution in 1979 from his exile in France.

Supporting both and either sides in the first Gulf War (Iran-Iraq) without any clear aim or consideration given to how bloody and nasty this long war was. Israel supplying weapons and ammunition to Iran under direct supervision from the USA whilst France, Germany and Britain stocked up Iraq throughout the 1980s.

So what you end up with is a country, fundamentalist, with some crackpot leaders who really have nothing to lose and to keep up their support and avert the attention away from their own domestic failings, they launch racist tirades against Israel and the western world yet still keeping hold on their tyrannical régime.

Although you groaned the poster who said that Iran has been cornered and may bite back because of a lack of western co-operation, its actually pretty much the truth. The west needs a bad boy to justify their defense budgets and Iran is this decades' scapegoat.

I'm sure Hollywood is getting all the movie rights for the new attack on the Iran's nuclear sites, when that contract is a done deal, expect the UAVs to go in....
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Old 01.12.2011, 11:27
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Check out your history people. In the past few decades the West has made a mess of their Iranian foreign policies, not least started because they supported a corrupt Shah who ran his country like many others in that area as a dictatorship. Then failing to read the signs with Khomeni urging a revolution in 1979 from his exile in France.

Supporting both and either sides in the first Gulf War (Iran-Iraq) without any clear aim or consideration given to how bloody and nasty this long war was. Israel supplying weapons and ammunition to Iran under direct supervision from the USA whilst France, Germany and Britain stocked up Iraq throughout the 1980s.
Let's not dig out 200 years of issues. Yes the West did what it could to surround the Islamic Republic once it was declared, and who can blame them? It was the advent of a viable theocratic state with a huge drive to change the regional balance. The locals didn't take this lightly, just check out Saudi and UAE defence spending. No this isn't a "let's create a new export market for all our weapons!". Frightened govs do what they can to mitigate such earthquakes. It's not an automatic win for Western defense firms, or they'd (they're damn large now) be stoking stuff EVERYWHERE. Don't believe the hype.
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So what you end up with is a country, fundamentalist, with some crackpot leaders who really have nothing to lose and to keep up their support and avert the attention away from their own domestic failings, they launch racist tirades against Israel and the western world yet still keeping hold on their tyrannical régime.

Although you groaned the poster who said that Iran has been cornered and may bite back because of a lack of western co-operation, its actually pretty much the truth. The west needs a bad boy to justify their defense budgets and Iran is this decades' scapegoat.
You don't "end up". It was theocratic and crackpot from 1979 when Khomeini and his crones took over. Let's not paint these people innocent. And Iran won't justify most budgets apart from a special B-2 strike weapons. The competition between China and India (and the fright all around China) is where the money is. Cut the bollocks.
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Old 01.12.2011, 11:32
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Just a question out of the blue, why IAEA didn't investigate Israeli's +160 nuclear war heads?
Because Israel did not sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty! So they cannot be accused of signing a treaty & then doing something different - unlike certain other countries.....

Last edited by marton; 01.12.2011 at 11:35. Reason: spelling again.....
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Old 01.12.2011, 11:37
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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I do not see how the USA / UK can go around telling the world who are good and bad people/countries.
Why should the USA have the right to tell countries who can build nuclear power stations or even nuclear bombs/missiles?
Does it even matter that Saddam had no biological weapons available? It is of absolutely no importance whether Iran has a bomb or not. Even if they did, they would not use it as they are not that stupid, as the media wants us to believe. It's a great excuse though.

The "world police" does nothing about the hardships which millions of people in other countries endure, as long as there is no money it it for them. It's as simple as that.

Some countries are allowed to use cluster or phosphorus bombs, attack ships on international waters, and have nuclear warheads and others simply aren't. International treaties do not seem to apply to those who write them, but are being enforced on those who never agreed to them. How is this just?
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Old 01.12.2011, 11:46
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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I do not see how the USA / UK can go around telling the world who are good and bad people/countries.
They're not very good at it.

Saudia Arabia should have been invaded long ago and it's ruling family gunned down by some U.S. hit squad.
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