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  #61  
Old 01.12.2011, 12:48
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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They're not very good at it.

Saudia Arabia should have been invaded long ago and it's ruling family gunned down by some U.S. hit squad.
Ah but they wouldn't you see. It's always about the oil, and Saudi Arabia has no....


Oh, hang on a sec.....
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  #62  
Old 01.12.2011, 12:54
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Does it even matter that Saddam had no biological weapons available? It is of absolutely no importance whether Iran has a bomb or not. Even if they did, they would not use it as they are not that stupid, as the media wants us to believe. It's a great excuse though.

The "world police" does nothing about the hardships which millions of people in other countries endure, as long as there is no money it it for them. It's as simple as that.

Some countries are allowed to use cluster or phosphorus bombs, attack ships on international waters, and have nuclear warheads and others simply aren't. International treaties do not seem to apply to those who write them, but are being enforced on those who never agreed to them. How is this just?
Nice rant but short on facts & examples.
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  #63  
Old 01.12.2011, 12:58
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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They're not very good at it.

Saudia Arabia should have been invaded long ago and it's ruling family gunned down by some U.S. hit squad.
I certainly hope you're not proven wrong some day. But friends today can still become enemies tommorow.
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  #64  
Old 01.12.2011, 13:08
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Nice rant but short on facts & examples.
And which facts do you like better? The ones proving that cluster bombs indeed fell, hurting civilians, or the ones that deem their use "legal".

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-25/w...on?_s=PM:WORLD

The facts are common knowledge and I trust you can do your own research if the things I wrote about are new to you. I'm merely expressing an opinion.
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  #65  
Old 01.12.2011, 14:14
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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And which facts do you like better? The ones proving that cluster bombs indeed fell, hurting civilians, or the ones that deem their use "legal".

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-25/w...on?_s=PM:WORLD

The facts are common knowledge and I trust you can do your own research if the things I wrote about are new to you. I'm merely expressing an opinion.
One example from 4 years ago? Best you can do?
Why should I spend my time to do research to support your rant? Do your own work.
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  #66  
Old 01.12.2011, 14:31
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

Instead of the usual whataboutery we should concentrate on the given situation:

Iran is developing nuclear weapons, and responded with violence to the west's economical sanctions.

Iran, with or without nukes, is much weaker than it's opponents and without any dependable allies. It may attack Israel to enjoy the prevailing anti-Israeli sentiment (Like Saddam Hussein tried in 1991), but this escalation is not without risks.
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  #67  
Old 01.12.2011, 14:41
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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One example from 4 years ago? Best you can do?
No.

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Why should I spend my time to do research to support your rant? Do your own work.
You wanted an example so you got one. How many do you need? Maybe you should just do some reading then. Facts are something you don't really dispute about. It's the interpretation that differs, and yours is clearly different than mine.

Not that any amount of examples from my side would influence your position. You have your mind set. I'm ok with that, as long as you're not one of the "trigger happy".
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  #68  
Old 01.12.2011, 15:23
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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You don't "end up". It was theocratic and crackpot from 1979 when Khomeini and his crones took over. Let's not paint these people innocent. And Iran won't justify most budgets apart from a special B-2 strike weapons. The competition between China and India (and the fright all around China) is where the money is. Cut the bollocks.
There's a big difference with your comparisons. Whilst you rightly state that in overall strategic terms China is the "new Russia", the Indians are seen as sympathetic to the west and often hold joint military maneuvers.

Iran and other rogue nations such as Syria and North Korea will always justify western defense spending as they are the proponents of terrorism throughout the world which is a far harder war to ever win or extinguish. Supporting guerrilla tactics is relatively cheap and you get a lot more "bang for your buck". Ask yourself why the Allies are in Afghanistan, its not to adjust the global balance its a show of force to prevent the spread of Islamic fundamentalism and to try and create a nation that is friendly to the west. There was no way to enter Pakistan or Iran like the Allies were able to create a foothold in Afghanistan after 9/11.

When I briefly had to cover "Enduring Freedom" a couple of years back, you could see the US Navy headed out up north to fly CAPs (Combat Air Patrols) loaded to the brim with air-to-ground weaponry, with each laser guided bomb kit costing several tens of thousands of dollars and their targets? Small, cheap homemade explosive devices buried into roads to maim and kill as many humans possible basically.

And so it is with Iran, a nasty government supporting terrorism out of sheer fundamentalism and a lack of friendly nations willing to take them as equal partners in the international world of diplomacy. Yet the Iranians are some of the best educated and culturally aware people of the Middle East and yet they have endured this extremism in their country without respite for over 30 years now. Bombing their nation will not bring them in line with what we consider "friendly nations" status. Supporting their opposition and toppling from within will eventually win out the day. Just look at the 2011 trends....
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  #69  
Old 01.12.2011, 15:50
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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No.



You wanted an example so you got one. How many do you need? Maybe you should just do some reading then. Facts are something you don't really dispute about. It's the interpretation that differs, and yours is clearly different than mine.

Not that any amount of examples from my side would influence your position. You have your mind set. I'm ok with that, as long as you're not one of the "trigger happy".
Well you write a post which implies that there are many examples of countries breaking international laws.
If you want to talk about facts then you support your post by giving only one example which actually states they complied with international laws.

How many examples do I need? Enough to credibly support your post about many examples & preferably you would provide examples which actually state international laws were broken.
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  #70  
Old 01.12.2011, 23:08
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Iran, with or without nukes, is much weaker than it's opponents and without any dependable allies. It may attack Israel to enjoy the prevailing anti-Israeli sentiment (Like Saddam Hussein tried in 1991), but this escalation is not without risks.
You mean can, and will, strike back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2...reatening_Iran
And
that will happen undoubtedly.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9007275097

The term "Samson Option" used in reference to Israel's nuclear program.

Nuts sicarios holding several millions hostage of their dream.

A nation is, in my mind, an historical group of men of a recognizable cohesion held together by a common enemy.


Theodor Herzl
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  #71  
Old 01.12.2011, 23:11
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

Have humans fully mastered the art of self destruction yet? All they do is kill and breed like germs.
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  #72  
Old 02.12.2011, 00:49
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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You mean can, and will, strike back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2...reatening_Iran
And that will happen undoubtedly.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9007275097

The term "Samson Option" used in reference to Israel's nuclear program.

Nuts sicarios holding several millions hostage of their dream.

A nation is, in my mind, an historical group of men of a recognizable cohesion held together by a common enemy.

Theodor Herzl
Sorry but Iran is no threat to anybody, even with nukes.
The West could wipe out their military potential in the first day.
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  #73  
Old 02.12.2011, 01:34
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Sorry but Iran is no threat to anybody, even with nukes.
The West could wipe out their military potential in the first day.
Then why the West doesn't do it.. 33 year preparation seems a bit long, isn't it ?

“I think the problem with the strike is thinking through the consequences of Iranian reaction. One mine that hits a tanker, and you can imagine what is going to happen to the price of oil and economies around the world. One missile into a Gulf oil field or a natural gas processing field, you can imagine what’s going to happen. A missile attack on some of our troop formations in the Gulf or our bases in Iraq, activating sleeper cells, flushing out fast patrol boats and dowels that have mines that can go into the water in the Red Sea and elsewhere. You can see all these reactions that are problematic in so many ways. Economic impact, national security impact — it will drag us into a conflict. I think anybody that believes that it would be a clean strike and it would be over and there would be no reaction is foolish.”


Retired Marine General Anthony Zinni,former CENTCOM commander.
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  #74  
Old 02.12.2011, 01:36
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

All nuclear countries should get rid of their nuclear weapons. No country should be allowed to hold such weapons. That would be truly fair.
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Old 02.12.2011, 02:44
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Have humans fully mastered the art of self destruction yet? All they do is kill and breed like germs.
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All nuclear countries should get rid of their nuclear weapons. No country should be allowed to hold such weapons. That would be truly fair.
Either you're under 12 or a troll. I was going to suggest you put some meat into your arguments, but then it clicked.
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Old 02.12.2011, 09:59
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Either you're under 12 or a troll. I was going to suggest you put some meat into your arguments, but then it clicked.
Sorry bud, the new euphemisms thread is on another page.

BTW - what is "an argument"?
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  #77  
Old 02.12.2011, 10:48
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Then why the West doesn't do it.. 33 year preparation seems a bit long, isn't it ?

“I think the problem with the strike is thinking through the consequences of Iranian reaction. One mine that hits a tanker, and you can imagine what is going to happen to the price of oil and economies around the world. One missile into a Gulf oil field or a natural gas processing field, you can imagine what’s going to happen. A missile attack on some of our troop formations in the Gulf or our bases in Iraq, activating sleeper cells, flushing out fast patrol boats and dowels that have mines that can go into the water in the Red Sea and elsewhere. You can see all these reactions that are problematic in so many ways. Economic impact, national security impact — it will drag us into a conflict. I think anybody that believes that it would be a clean strike and it would be over and there would be no reaction is foolish.”

Retired Marine General Anthony Zinni,former CENTCOM commander.
I was talking about the (lack of) capability of Iran to launch a military attack not an attack on Iran.

Of course Iran could, for example, close the Gulf of Hormuz but most military strategy forecasts see it open again in a month (would be a full scale war ).
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  #78  
Old 03.12.2011, 02:27
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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I stand corrected on that, I did not check my facts on this. But I do seem to remember that Hizbullah have been seriously blocking the Lebanese government's actions of late. I really remember this article: http://www.economist.com/node/17913450 . It can't be considered really current but does explain the weight of Hizbullah at the national level. These people are STILL the tool of Al Qods (the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards "foreign service"), make no mistake.
It is simple. The Shi'ites in Lebanon make up between 30% and 35% of the people. The Amal Party commands a "market" of some 20 to 25 % of the total, which leaves Hizbullah with 10 to 15%. A) 10 to 15% DOES count in politics B) the trouble with Hizbullah is (the picture is similar with some other parties in Lebanon) that they are dominant in particular land areas like some areas along the Israeli border C) add to this that Hizbullah never merged their militias into the Lebanese Army D) and to make things complete realize that the Lebanese army is an amalgamation of a variety of militias. That it nowadays is a real army again has to be credited to General Michel Suleiman, the man who now is State President (a Maronite Christian)

What does it mean in practice ? Go to Khaldé-Airport, which is more or less under Maronite-Sunni control. Then go to the other side of the airport-place and you are in Hizbi-land. Very practical for aircraft photography as none of the security-folks from the main-area comes over. In Beirut, you know that the West Beirut with quarters like Ras-Beirut & Hamra (my favourites) and Jamiah, Manara, Ramlet-al-Baïda are mainly Sunni, East Beirut with Ashrafiyah however is predominantly Maronite Christian, while some quarters to the south-east (towards the mountains) are Armenian. In South Beirut it is more complicated with some Shi'ite and some Sunni neighbourhoods. The City of Saïda is predominantly Sunni, but east of this city you have Druzes and South of it some Shi'ite areas (dominated not by Hizbullah but by Amal. To the east/north-east of Lebanon you have the areas dominated by the Maronite Christian Frangieh clan who are however not linked with other Maronite areas but with Sunni clans both inside Lebanon and in Damascus.

***********************************************

You then mention Iran. The support for Hizbullah reflects the strategic desire of Iran, not new but important for thousands of years (look at the situation in the times of Alexander the Great), to have influence in the Mediterranean. Overall, their investment in Hizbullah is not exactly a profitable one, neither economically nor politically. This is why President Suleiman two years ago paid an extensive visit to Tehran during which he arranged a heap of economic deals with the Iranians. He did not offer any political courtesies but a sound and good economic co-operation. So that now, Iran still of course sides with Hizbullah, but A) also works with the central Lebanese government and B) also has to get along with the also Shi'ite Amal Party (nicknamed "Hizbullah with Red Wine" ! ) . For Iran, the situation in the Levantine region has become critical overnight as the upheaval in Syria threatens to result in the "removal" of the Allawite (Shi'ite) Assad clan and its replacement by members of the Sunni majority. Add to this that the Prime Minister of Iraq who for years lived in Damascus is an Assad man who was and is heavily supported by the Assad regime

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  #79  
Old 03.12.2011, 02:35
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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Of course Iran could, for example, close the Gulf of Hormuz but most military strategy forecasts see it open again in a month (would be a full scale war ).
40% of the World's oil pass through he straight of Hormuz. Can you imagine a month's 40% disruption? And playing on that event, I have some long dated, highly striked, call options. And I would suggest everyone here to have some.
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Old 03.12.2011, 02:49
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Re: Iranians attack & enter British Embassy in Tehran

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I was talking about the (lack of) capability of Iran to launch a military attack not an attack on Iran.

Of course Iran could, for example, close the Gulf of Hormuz but most military strategy forecasts see it open again in a month (would be a full scale war ).

Go (in the evening) to Muscat Airport, the Indian restaurant in the 2nd floor, overlooking the Indian Ocean. You will see an endless stream of tankers heading out from the Arabian Gulf .... one behind the other. A month ?! of closure would be horror for the world economy, most of all in Europe. Already bought a bycicle ? If yes , good, because your car with a petrol price of CHF 15.85 per liter may no longer be what it used to be and the situation would/will not get back to normal so swiftly
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