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  #61  
Old 01.12.2011, 23:01
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Our Senate just passed a bill that would allow our military to arrest US citizens in the US or anywhere in the world who are suspected of terrorist activities and hold them indefinitely without being charged and without a trial.

http://www.thebradentontimes.com/new..._police_state/

Since when does a suscpicion of terrorism trample on the rights of citizens to a formal charge and fair trial?? I'm just shocked

Check out Glen Greenwalds post today at salon.com

perfectly onpoint to this thread.
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Old 02.12.2011, 10:01
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Check out Glen Greenwalds post today at salon.com

perfectly onpoint to this thread.
Villain rotation, aptly put
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  #63  
Old 02.12.2011, 10:08
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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That is one of the main issues I have with the US - to criticize is to be a traitor among many there.

It definitely isn't the America I grew up in, it seems to grow stranger and stranger as each year passes.
In the same boat really...each passing year it's increasingly a fading memory...I see even en Suisse, some cling to an idealized version of what it once was
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  #64  
Old 02.12.2011, 15:07
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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I do NOT have an address in the US anymore and have not since 2006 when I left. I could have one, but then I would pay state and local taxes. Since I do not plan on going back to this city/state, why would I want to continue to use this address?

So technically, no, I do not have representation. Nor do most of the expats that I know. I do not see the Catch-22.

fduvall
But we still have to file and pay federal taxes under FATCA.

WTH?
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  #65  
Old 16.12.2011, 11:02
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

Bill will pass with no veto.

A friend of mine from the States wrote on Facebook: "I always thought that falling under tyranny would be less... boring. The most interesting thing about the whole thing is the mundanity and people's disinterest."
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  #66  
Old 16.12.2011, 11:32
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Bill will pass with no veto.

A friend of mine from the States wrote on Facebook: "I always thought that falling under tyranny would be less... boring. The most interesting thing about the whole thing is the mundanity and people's disinterest."
Apathy...It's an ingenious consequence of government & corporations impunity over the years...Dummy down the populace, keep them preoccupied with their trivial pursuits and allow those in power to consolidate it and continue...A chap named Machiavelli wrote a nice manual on it
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  #67  
Old 16.12.2011, 12:49
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Apathy...It's an ingenious consequence of government & corporations impunity over the years...Dummy down the populace, keep them preoccupied with their trivial pursuits and allow those in power to consolidate it and continue...A chap named Machiavelli wrote a nice manual on it
also check out Max Frisch's "Biedermann und die Brandstifter".

At every twist and turn Biedermann refuses to believe that he is being cheated and is always keen to fnd some innocent explanation and maintain the optimistic view that things will turn out right in the end.

One of the climaxes involves the arsonist asking him for matches, which he willingly hands over. His wife scolds him for giving the arsonist matches with which he will set fire to the house. He replies "if he really was an arsonist, surely he would already have matches".
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  #68  
Old 16.12.2011, 13:13
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

I suppose the bill puts US citizens on equal footing with non-citizens outside US?
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  #69  
Old 16.12.2011, 13:18
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

Did I call it, or did I call it?

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It won't get vetoed. It's the Defense Reauthorization Bill. It is ritualistically passed every year without much debate, like so many other pieces of legislation.
Meanwhile... I'm wondering if now is a good time to consider becoming stateless, and what is it like to become a refugee/asylee in Switzerland...
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:23
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

Definitely, there's certainly a good deal of that, as well

I don't know anymore really...I remember predicting the decline of the US when I was in college - so much seemed unsustainable...That it was bound to eventually crumble and perhaps unravel at an exponential rate like we're beginning to see

I've listened to non Americans opine about the basis for why so few seem to care within America or why so many are apathetic...Obviously, it's not everyone but enough that there's no inertia towards any real change

I hear individualism quite a bit as the culprit - I know, surprise...That too many think too narrowly and whenever anything doesn't quite jive with what is believed to be right, and it doesn't affect them personally, it's typically met with indifference...Plus, there's so much at work to delineate differences between people rather than bringing them together in any sort of community...Apart, of course, from the flag waving nationalism which actually serves to preserve those differences...A bit of the head in the sand routine, IMHO

That gap between those in power (Both in government & corporations) continues to widen and while occupy has been refreshing in some respects, it's difficult to awaken a populace that has played too passive a role for too long

I remember when intellectuals were predicting it would take decades to undo the mess W made and I was thinking, it's not just the mess W made - there were things wrong even before then...And it's only gotten worse

Perhaps, if nothing else, a good number of people will finally see that this whole Republican vs Democrat nonsense is a rouse...That it's merely two sides of the same coin and that maybe, just maybe, people will strive to take government back...Back to represent what it was always supposed to, the people...The people merely have to decide what they want rather than letting others decide it for them

And as someone generally considered an optimist by my peers, I struggle to find much in the way of optimism for the country...So while I'm comfortably en Suisse, I'm fully aware that a US run amok bodes poorly for the global community - not just those who have seemingly given up back in America

On a seemingly unrelated note, I was discussing the Frozen Planet series recently and thought about the parallels to society in general...Parts of the world that are largely untouched by man in comparison to the rest of the planet, yet increasingly suffering from man's impact elsewhere...The ripple effect

I keep wondering, what's next?
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  #71  
Old 16.12.2011, 14:21
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

It is more than just the ingrained blind patriotism and (alleged) individualism that's the problem. I think the biggest problem is education - and the lack of teaching of critical thinking.

When I went to university in the 80s, the decline had already begun. I had looked forward to my studies as an expansion of my mind, to try out some crazy theories, learn about them, discuss them and then decide what was good or not. While I found that in places (and wow, did I have professors with wacky theories like space aliens mated with the ancient Egyptians and that's why they were always shown with elongated heads...), it wasn't as free-thinking as I'd been hoping for.

These days, one studies only for career purposes and to ace exams. Learning for the expansion of your mind doesn't really exist like it once did.

Bars have been set far lower in many regards, and most university graduates these days may be educated in their field of study - but can they think critically? Can they form their own opinions on complicated matters? Usually not, partially because they're not taught to and I believe in part because society makes it relatively unacceptable to think outside of the pre-set norms.

A ramble that perhaps makes sense?
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  #72  
Old 16.12.2011, 14:45
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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I suppose the bill puts US citizens on equal footing with non-citizens outside US?
I believe so. People are already being detained by the US military without trial so the bill probably doesn’t make too much difference apart from broadening the range to the US soil.

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  #73  
Old 16.12.2011, 15:22
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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It is more than just the ingrained blind patriotism and (alleged) individualism that's the problem. I think the biggest problem is education - and the lack of teaching of critical thinking.

When I went to university in the 80s, the decline had already begun. I had looked forward to my studies as an expansion of my mind, to try out some crazy theories, learn about them, discuss them and then decide what was good or not. While I found that in places (and wow, did I have professors with wacky theories like space aliens mated with the ancient Egyptians and that's why they were always shown with elongated heads...), it wasn't as free-thinking as I'd been hoping for.

These days, one studies only for career purposes and to ace exams. Learning for the expansion of your mind doesn't really exist like it once did.

Bars have been set far lower in many regards, and most university graduates these days may be educated in their field of study - but can they think critically? Can they form their own opinions on complicated matters? Usually not, partially because they're not taught to and I believe in part because society makes it relatively unacceptable to think outside of the pre-set norms.

A ramble that perhaps makes sense?
I see this especially so in business (read: non-science) people. "Critical thinking" is limited to constructs of making money and forecasting shareholder outcomes. But when it comes to real-life intelligence they really are lacking it.

Though for the most part I agree that education is not what it used to be -- even in science -- I still hold that scienced-based curricula are largely about critical thought and shepherding students to ground their ideas within the realm of plausability and then to explore their ideas further -- and much more importantly -- how to do it.

(good lord what a run on sentence -- clearly I'm not an English major)
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  #74  
Old 16.12.2011, 15:23
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

In between the bottom of the trash bin shows like Jersey Shore or My Sweet 16 MTV has been running these two ads. Quite powerful actually, it made my jaw drop.




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Old 16.12.2011, 15:37
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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...Meanwhile... I'm wondering if now is a good time to consider becoming stateless, and what is it like to become a refugee/asylee in Switzerland...
Sadly, the US government doesn't permit that of its subjects.
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  #76  
Old 16.12.2011, 15:42
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Sadly, the US government doesn't permit that of its subjects.
Ya.... I believe I read somewhere that in order to surrender your citizenship, you have to have the ability assume another.

And when you're American and try to seek refuge elsewhere you just get laughed at.

"Please, Monsieur Sarkozy. I can't be taxed without representation anymore! Please!!!"
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Old 16.12.2011, 15:52
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Ya.... I believe I read somewhere that in order to surrender your citizenship, you have to have the ability assume another.
So how about founding a new state, without any territorry but with embassies in all countries?
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  #78  
Old 16.12.2011, 16:03
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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So how about founding a new state, without any territorry but with embassies in all countries?
...managed by EF members...
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  #79  
Old 16.12.2011, 16:08
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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...managed by EF members...


God NO! I enjoy coed nude saunas.
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Old 16.12.2011, 16:13
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

How about this place, seems to be for sale.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
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