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Old 01.12.2011, 11:25
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USA once again headed toward Police State

Our Senate just passed a bill that would allow our military to arrest US citizens in the US or anywhere in the world who are suspected of terrorist activities and hold them indefinitely without being charged and without a trial.

http://www.thebradentontimes.com/new..._police_state/

Since when does a suscpicion of terrorism trample on the rights of citizens to a formal charge and fair trial?? I'm just shocked
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Old 01.12.2011, 13:45
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

Had to be Mcain lol.

Any "real" papers carrying the story?


I couldn't be bothered to trail through to find the actual bit of info but here it is:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867:%20
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Old 01.12.2011, 13:52
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Since when does a suscpicion of terrorism trample on the rights of citizens to a formal charge and fair trial?? I'm just shocked
Given that for all those who are not U.S. citizens that right ceased to exist quite some time ago, I say it was about time U.S. citizens got tarred with the same brush
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Old 01.12.2011, 13:58
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Our Senate just passed a bill that would allow our military to arrest US citizens in the US or anywhere in the world who are suspected of terrorist activities and hold them indefinitely without being charged and without a trial.

http://www.thebradentontimes.com/new..._police_state/

Since when does a suscpicion of terrorism trample on the rights of citizens to a formal charge and fair trial?? I'm just shocked
You have made your point, you've caused enough US bashing for the week. Most of us who are US citizens have felt demeaned enough for the time being. Now go find something else to do with your time.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:04
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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You have made your point, you've caused enough US bashing for the week. Most of us who are US citizens have felt demeaned enough for the time being. Now go find something else to do with your time.
So you don't think that we, as Americans, should be upset about this? You don't think this is an erosion of civil liberties and a violation of the constitution and bill of rights?

Basically, if they think you might be a terrorist, the military can make you disappear and you can't do a thing about it.

How's that US bashing?

I feel demeaned enough that the country I happened to be born in is moving even stronger in this direction.

What else should the OP do with their time? Accept it?
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:06
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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You have made your point, you've caused enough US bashing for the week. Most of us who are US citizens have felt demeaned enough for the time being. Now go find something else to do with your time.
It's called "Freedom of Speech" and he has presented something worth discussing.

If you feel demeaned, please present your case or leave the thread.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:19
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

It's all over the news -- still in the early stages, so let's hope that everyone wakes up. Clearly completely unconstitutional.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:19
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

Well it really isnt that hard to NOT be considered a terrorist now isnt it? I guess it sucks when we look at racial profiling and you are an Arabic (looking) American or something like that......

mmmm Obama sure brought the change didnt he....?
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:20
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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So you don't think that we, as Americans, should be upset about this? You don't think this is an erosion of civil liberties and a violation of the constitution and bill of rights?

Basically, if they think you might be a terrorist, the military can make you disappear and you can't do a thing about it.

How's that US bashing?

I feel demeaned enough that the country I happened to be born in is moving even stronger in this direction.

What else should the OP do with their time? Accept it?
We have every right to be upset, and most Americans are, including myself. But what upsets me the most, is the constant bashing, on the US from 4000 miles away, on issues that happen in so many other Countries, but the US seem to be the easy target.

I am a naturalized US citizen, went there with my family as a young child. I have a personal gratitude and patriotism to the USA, for all the wonderful opportunities it has afforded me. I was accepted into an Ivy league school, owned my first home at the age 22, and could go on and on.

Would these opportunities be bestowed upon me in my home country, or even if I had moved to Switzerland at that age? probably not.

Mark you, education was a vital aspect of my growing up, thanks to my Parents, but with all the hard work we, as in my family put in, I strongly doubt, doors that opened up to us in American, might not be the same in other countries.

I wish other Americans would recognize what a great country they have, and stop burning their bridges, and jump off the American assasination wagon.

So groan all you want, makes no difference to me, for me this is personal.

Last edited by Mitziem; 01.12.2011 at 14:39.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:22
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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You have made your point, you've caused enough US bashing for the week. Most of us who are US citizens have felt demeaned enough for the time being. Now go find something else to do with your time.
In what way does criticising a US law demean a US citizen?

Am I demeaning the Chinese people if I criticise Chinese law? Am I demeaning the Iranian people if I criticise the Iranian government? No, of course not. Why should it be any different for the US?
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:22
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Given that for all those who are not U.S. citizens that right ceased to exist quite some time ago, I say it was about time U.S. citizens got tarred with the same brush
If you're talking about Guantanamo, you have a point; however, commenting that US citizens deserve the same treatment is a bit misdirected - especially since most Americans I know are against it.

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You have made your point, you've caused enough US bashing for the week. Most of us who are US citizens have felt demeaned enough for the time being. Now go find something else to do with your time.
If you're apathetic about what's been going on in your own country, so be it. For other US citizens like yours truly, informing others and protesting in our own way while far away from home is how we fight for our rights.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:23
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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You don't think this is an erosion of civil liberties and a violation of the constitution and bill of rights?
Oh, yes, civil liberties... Did we discuss the new laws on the use of drones WITHIN the US already?

"Fox News legal analyst": Privacy is not a constitutional right anyway...

http://video.foxnews.com/v/129805478...e-planes-in-us

I don't bash the US, but for me have they lost a lot of credibility and the moral high ground over the last decade. How can you ask the guy in Syria to stop torturing if you do the same in Guantanamo and other nameless illegal CIA prisons?
How can you tell dictators to stop killing their oponents if you kill terror SUSPECTS (and the weirdo last month was a US national!) without trial in a drone strike... and now those drones will happily keep the own population under control.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:24
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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We have every right to be upset, but what upsets me the most is the constant bashing, on the US from 4000 miles away on issues that happen in so many other Countries, but the US seem to be the easy target.
Well, for starts, it doesn't happen here.

And that it happens in certain other countries is a reason for it to be allowed in the US?

Yes, for me it's also personal: I hate what's become of the land of my birth!

Tom
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:25
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Had to be Mcain lol.

Any "real" papers carrying the story?


I couldn't be bothered to trail through to find the actual bit of info but here it is:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867:%20

It's Section D -- Detainee Matters, and I don't see how it reads anything like what people are making it out to be.

First it's unconstitutional for the military to be used as domestic police except in times of martial law. This is why they could not use the military to patrol the southern US border and instead had to beef up the border patrol (civil).

I really feel as if it's all being bloated up to be something it's not. Unless some expert in legalese can read this section of the law and explain how the inference is made that if the law is finally passed and signed by the President that it will mean any American anywhere can be detained indefinitely without charge merely on suspicion of being a terrorist (which we know is also a subjective and loosely applied term), then I'm going to continue to be skeptical that this is actually what this law will do.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:26
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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In what way does criticising a US law demean a US citizen?
This is one of many.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:28
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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Well it really isnt that hard to NOT be considered a terrorist now isnt it? I guess it sucks when we look at racial profiling and you are an Arabic (looking) American or something like that......

mmmm Obama sure brought the change didnt he....?
during the Bush years if you didn't support the war, then you weren't a patriot, and therefore by default, you were a terrorist.

That was the kind of logic that was in play. It's subsided quite considerably but I'd be terrified to see it start to rear its ugly head again. That's why we all breathed a collective sigh of relief when Obama was elected -- it meant that the era of paranoia, scapegoating, and xenaphobia was over -- or so we thought.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:32
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

i wish people wouldnt get so worked up over 'news' from an OP-ED in the BRANDENTON TIMES. ffs.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:32
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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That was the kind of logic that was in play. It's subsided quite considerably but I'd be terrified to see it start to rear its ugly head again. That's why we all breathed a collective sigh of relief when Obama was elected -- it meant that the era of paranoia, scapegoating, and xenaphobia was over -- or so we thought.
Oh yes, Obama.

I loved his presidential campaign:





















the rest is silence.
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:36
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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You have made your point, you've caused enough US bashing for the week. Most of us who are US citizens have felt demeaned enough for the time being. Now go find something else to do with your time.
Speak for yourself?

And here's a better article: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/1...over-detainees

Last edited by anowheels; 01.12.2011 at 14:38. Reason: added article
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Old 01.12.2011, 14:41
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Re: USA once again headed toward Police State

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i wish people wouldnt get so worked up over 'news' from an OP-ED in the BRANDENTON TIMES. ffs.
I liked it because it was an interesting commentary.....but if you prefer a little more "credible" news, then I grabbed this from the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1119473.html

But here's what I think of the media in general:

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