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  #61  
Old 02.12.2011, 22:58
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

Thanks, Yasmina. That article gave me the chills, it was so right on.

The other day I met a nice pharmacist in Lausanne. She was clearly interested in my background. I think she just liked to chat at her job and enjoys meeting people from other places. I also think she thought she saw something different in me. So she asked what my last name is. That never helps anyone. So I explained that my grandparents made it up as a response to persecution, etc. etc. Anyway, it's a pretty decent story, and it hopefully made her job more interesting for a few minutes. I don't mind, because she seemed like an example of a local with an open mind.

I agree, coming from more complex origins isn't always simple. Sometimes I find myself playing up one side of my background versus another, because it is convenient in certain situations, whereas explaining the whole story wears a person out. But you ultimately wind up with some insights about what's important that maybe shake off some of the confines of a particular heritage or point of view.
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  #62  
Old 02.12.2011, 23:48
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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So, my first wife was a Canadian who married a Zurcher, who divorced him and married an American (me), who became Swiss and dumped his US citizenship after she died, marying later a real Swiss, sort of.

Of course there are the half-vietnamese kids and grand kids, the Thai group, etc. (conveniently leaving out the the cousins from various Carribean islands of the darker persuasion)

So, where exactly are we going with this?

Tom
Let me try ; A International which doesn't gives a crap what the rest of the world thinks you would make the perfect Canadian ,maybe you are Canadian Proud of you
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Old 03.12.2011, 00:01
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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Let me try ; A International which doesn't gives a crap what the rest of the world thinks you would make the perfect Canadian ,maybe you are Canadian Proud of you
My kids are Canadians.

And US.

And Swiss.

Me, I got rid of the extraneous crap and am just Swiss!

Tom
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Old 03.12.2011, 01:11
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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see, people have these mutations in their genes and they are heritable. if you get two mutated copies (from mother and father) that protein encoded by the gene is no more fully functional, which may lead to disease. The chances of getting two mutated copies increase with the degree of inbreeding (within family, clan, village, nation, race etc)...so, mixing genes is good to prevent genetic diseases (pretty much every disease, dysfunctionality, lack of performance have a genetic component)

Nazi's missed this point quite badly, but this is what happens when you politicize science
No, you are missing the point, badly. There are no inherently genetically different races, therefore the whole mixed race makes for healthier humans concept is as flawed as it is dangerously stupid.

Once you start arguing that one set of combined genes is superior to another (even if well-intended) then you do exactly the same as the Nazis did, just reversed. You argue that inter-racial kids (which are not necessarily more genetically diverse than intra-racial kids) are somehow superior to intra-racial kids. For some reason the same people would spout about there not being races due to the fact that genetic diversity within a race is greater than between races..

I am the first to admit that I think mixed kids are prettier than "normal" kids, but that's just my impression/opinion. The whole hybrid-race concept, usually flavored with a liberal dose of misunderstood biology, is just stupid to the extreme.
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Old 03.12.2011, 03:53
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

My Aunt's husband, has a full blood brother who is the result a genetic throwback. Her husband is (was) blonde and blue eyed, as were his sisters, however, his brother, however, inherited a roma gypsy gene from an ancestor they had from way back in their family, he looks more pakistani than he does white british which is essentially what he is. His mother had some serious explaining to do as this was around 60 years ago and it caused a lot of problems in the family who thought she might have been playing away with an undesirable.

The funny thing is, people who think they are pure white, at some point in their family history will have some "tainted" blood, so it's about time they got a life and let other people get on with theirs, regardless of colour....
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  #66  
Old 03.12.2011, 10:49
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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No, you are missing the point, badly. There are no inherently genetically different races, therefore the whole mixed race makes for healthier humans concept is as flawed as it is dangerously stupid.

Once you start arguing that one set of combined genes is superior to another (even if well-intended) then you do exactly the same as the Nazis did, just reversed. You argue that inter-racial kids (which are not necessarily more genetically diverse than intra-racial kids) are somehow superior to intra-racial kids. For some reason the same people would spout about there not being races due to the fact that genetic diversity within a race is greater than between races..

I am the first to admit that I think mixed kids are prettier than "normal" kids, but that's just my impression/opinion. The whole hybrid-race concept, usually flavored with a liberal dose of misunderstood biology, is just stupid to the extreme.

what you found stupid is a well established fact in biology, if you care of course...if not you may revert back to your double think
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Old 03.12.2011, 10:56
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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what you found stupid is a well established fact in biology, if you care of course...if not you may revert back to your double think
I think the point is that it doesn't have to be exclusively inter-racial, just two humans with outstanding qualities/health/whatever of either the same or different race will have the same effect. Genes span the spectrum of races.

Unless you know of evidence to the contrary?
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Old 03.12.2011, 12:12
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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I think the point is that it doesn't have to be exclusively inter-racial, just two humans with outstanding qualities/health/whatever of either the same or different race will have the same effect. Genes span the spectrum of races.

Unless you know of evidence to the contrary?
this would be true for a small fraction of lucky people (i.e. the centurions) who may have very few such mutations...
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  #69  
Old 03.12.2011, 12:33
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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Some people really have issues with inter racial marriages. Of all the countries I have lived in I find Swiss to be the most accepting. Some might not like foreigners but mixed marriage seems to be ok for some reason.

Cant speak for some hillbilly equivalent in Schwyz though
No problem in Schwyz. Even the new Standerat, SVP und Muotathaler Peter Föhn, has a daughter-in-law who is Asian and he embraces the fact with the greatest respect and warmth.
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Old 03.12.2011, 12:34
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

Thing is, people interpret 'mixed race' based on colour. My OH is one of the most mixed race person I know - 3 different races and about 7 different nationalities. Fact is he is white and looks 'British' - a throw of the genetic dice and it could have been quite different as he has Indonesian and black African just 2 generations back. Our daughters have of course the Swiss/French Huguenot thrown in from my side. They do have that stunning just a little bit exotic look- but nobody would ever think them mixed race. Our grandchildren have the above mixture + of course my Swiss and French Huguenot, and their father's Scottish and Irish. They look typically British, blond hair, blue eyes, very fair skin. If you take account of the above mix- they are incredibly mixed race - but again, nobody would ever think so or know so. People can be 'mixed' race and just not 'show it'. OH was brought up in UK and did exceedingly well in his studies and career- no idea at all whether things could have been different had he 'turned out' a few shades darker, like many of his cousins in South Africa. Knowing him- it would have made no difference at all. Interesting though. At the time of apartheid, the family was split into different groups depending on 'shade' - and his parents fled to the UK (legally as 1 grand-father was British).
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Old 03.12.2011, 17:14
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

Spending the last few days walking through Toronto, I've really noticed how mixed people can be. I'm usually good a picking backgrounds, but it is absolutely impossible. And the facial beauty is just amazing! Maybe because everyone smiles and beautiful strangers strike up random conversations...but either way, very culture-shocked at the moment.
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  #72  
Old 03.12.2011, 19:25
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

I will be in Toronto on monday.I will ruin it for every one
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Old 03.12.2011, 20:49
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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Thing is, people interpret 'mixed race' based on colour. My OH is one of the most mixed race person I know - 3 different races and about 7 different nationalities.
My wife is Swiss, BUT is generally darker than most (Spanish/Greek blood). In fact, with a suntan I'm till paler than she is without!

Tom
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Old 03.12.2011, 20:50
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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I will be in Toronto on monday.I will ruin it for every one
I thought it was spelt TRONNA?

Tom
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Old 04.12.2011, 11:57
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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No, you are missing the point, badly. There are no inherently genetically different races, therefore the whole mixed race makes for healthier humans concept is as flawed as it is dangerously stupid.

Once you start arguing that one set of combined genes is superior to another (even if well-intended) then you do exactly the same as the Nazis did, just reversed. You argue that inter-racial kids (which are not necessarily more genetically diverse than intra-racial kids) are somehow superior to intra-racial kids. For some reason the same people would spout about there not being races due to the fact that genetic diversity within a race is greater than between races..

I am the first to admit that I think mixed kids are prettier than "normal" kids, but that's just my impression/opinion. The whole hybrid-race concept, usually flavored with a liberal dose of misunderstood biology, is just stupid to the extreme.
In the first generation of mixing you tend to observe the effects of dominant versus recessive genes, and as genes that are associated with diseases etc tend to be recessive, this generation tends to be stronger which may also reflect in them being more beautiful (as visible physical defects are often the result of fighting diseases, sometimes even before birth). Of course if you believe Mendelev then in the second generation all that goes haywire and you're no better off than you were before you mixed. I know this from personal experience from gardening as I like to cross and grow my own seeds and I learnt the hard way that there is a reason breeders always go back to the original varieties for their experiments and practically ignore the genetic output of other breeders. But people are not garden vegetables and your genetics is only part of who you are. You are more than that a free person and have to make your own free choices and all this talk of mixed race superiority smells of one of the most unpleasant phases of the 20th Century to me. That it is the people who claim to be anti-racist who peddle this talk makes it no better in my eyes.
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Old 04.12.2011, 15:11
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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You are more than that a free person and have to make your own free choices and all this talk of mixed race superiority smells of one of the most unpleasant phases of the 20th Century to me. That it is the people who claim to be anti-racist who peddle this talk makes it no better in my eyes.
Exactly
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Old 04.12.2011, 15:12
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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No problem in Schwyz. Even the new Standerat, SVP und Muotathaler Peter Föhn, has a daughter-in-law who is Asian and he embraces the fact with the greatest respect and warmth.
Having an Asian wife is accepted. An African or Arabian son in law less so... and imagine the discussion if that son in law of the SVP guy was a Muslim!
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Old 04.12.2011, 15:21
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

White man marrying non white woman is relatively acceptable in the eyes of lot of racists. White woman marrying non white on the other hand is very bad for them
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Old 04.12.2011, 15:52
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

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Spending the last few days walking through Toronto, I've really noticed how mixed people can be. I'm usually good a picking backgrounds, but it is absolutely impossible. And the facial beauty is just amazing! Maybe because everyone smiles and beautiful strangers strike up random conversations...but either way, very culture-shocked at the moment.
I miss Canada. The whole common sense. Enjoy the culture shock, it is fab.

I think Vancouver and BC was the best I have experienced in tolerance and just down to earth attitude on this issue, but haven't been to Toronto. It strikes me as really weird, that it in fact is still an issue in some cultures.
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Old 04.12.2011, 18:20
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Re: Mixed racial marriages

I think it ultimately comes down to who is the "other", so it's not just a white/brown thing. Both sides of my family had issues when my parents got married (a Puerto Rican to an Indian). I had a friend in college whose Korean parents wouldn't accept her Jewish boyfriend. Another whose Jewish parents wouldn't accept her Chinese boyfriend. And another whose Italian parents wouldn't accept his African-American girlfriend, while her family wouldn't accept him. And another whose Guatemalan boyfriend wasn't accepted by her Mexican family, even though you'd think by looking at them all they were one family. When dating, I was shunned by the families of a Puerto Rican (being half Puerto Rican, I wasn't good enough), a white American, and a guy from Singapore of Chinese parents. I ended up marrying a white German and his family welcomed me with open arms (ok, except for one of my husband's grandmothers...).

I really think censure and failure to condone a marriage can stem from any one of a million reasons, from serious racism and hatred to something as simple as being afraid their loved ones are making life more difficult for themselves by choosing someone of a different culture, race, religion, or sexual orientation. Ultimately I consider it a sign of ignorance and fear. And as far as I'm concerned, this happens everywhere -- the US, Europe, Asia, Latin America, etc.

What makes me mad is one area pointing to another and saying how bad the others are when they do a similar thing themselves. Maybe the manifestations are different and are less extreme in some places, but I don't think you can go anywhere in this world where it doesn't happen. The most liberal place I've ever lived in was Berkeley, California, where people of any mix you could imagine walk down the street holding hands every day, and yet I witnessed some pretty bad racism and discrimination there too.

My view is, as long as the racism/discrimination isn't so widespread that I can't get a job or find a place to live, I try to distance myself from it and just surround myself with people who accept me. Why be a member of a group that doesn't want you? There will always be other friends, other churches/organizations, other cities, and even other family members.

And although it's sometimes hard, one also needs to remember that sometimes it may feel like something racist or discriminatory is happening, when really it was just a bad choice of words coming from someone who didn't think before they spoke, or even just something getting lost in translation or cultural differences.
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