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  #121  
Old 29.12.2011, 15:13
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Thye should have a referendum on the island. Let the inhabitants choose what they want.
Sure.

And as an inhabitant of Switzerland, I feel I should have a say in how the place is governed too.

Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way.
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  #122  
Old 29.12.2011, 16:48
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

Some things are worth fighting for, the Falkland Islands not. There is no logical reason for them to remain 'British' - whatever the hell that is in a modern world.

Time to learn Spanish I think...
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  #123  
Old 29.12.2011, 17:16
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

Last I heard the Falkland were well placed to exploit recent fossil fuel reserves nearby.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14925620

Cue subsequent Sabre-rattling from Argentina...

Interesting note: 1.3bn quid to make the field viable, for what - a 30bn return for the company (based on $100 current prices)? While that sounds great, it's not, once you subtract running and transportation costs. And, of course, tax.

Or put it another way - the total field estimate would only run Britain for 200 days (assuming no other sources).
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  #124  
Old 29.12.2011, 17:29
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

Much has been said about extracting hydrocarbons in the region, but so far, no dice.... the costs outweigh the benefit, at least so far. The Exxons, Chevrons, BPs, Totals, etc. etc. of the world continue to keep a healthy distance from the area.
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  #125  
Old 29.12.2011, 22:12
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While I have much reservation for UK, Argentina is a struggling-democracy state and at this point in time, from an European perspective, it is good that they have a base for the UK-US allies there.
The Argentina boom is fueled by land-grabbing from the indigenous people (happening now and not just a century ago) and turning it into soya beans fields while people who subsisted on it go hungry. Nothing to boast about. No wonder the president needs to steer the media attention to some "unifying" endeavor. I wonder if France is selling advanced weapons again to them. Maybe they've included a kill-switch now?
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  #126  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:14
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Thye should have a referendum on the island. Let the inhabitants choose what they want.
They did that & the inhabitants voted to stay British; please do some proper research before posting rubbish
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  #127  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:17
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Yes GB did such a bad job "undefending" these islands last time :-)

I tell you what we can make a deal, ALL non-indigenous people leave Argentina and hand it back to the "rightful owners" (the natives) and GB can hand the Falklands back to the new non-European leaders of Argentina, then everyone is happy.

And while we are at it all people must return to their country of ethnic origin I will book my flight to India as an ethnic Aryan immediatly

BTW isnt Kirchener a Germanic name?
About "ALL non-indigenous people leave Argentina and hand it back to the "rightful owners" (the natives) "

Good point, they have a better claim to Argentina than the Argentinians have to Falklands.
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  #128  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:18
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Some things are worth fighting for, the Falkland Islands not. There is no logical reason for them to remain 'British' - whatever the hell that is in a modern world.

Time to learn Spanish I think...
About "There is no logical reason for them to remain 'British' "

And the logical reason to give them to Argentina????
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  #129  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:20
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Furthermore, this is not an argument about "indigenous" and non "indigenous" people.

After centuries of european presence in the western hemisphere, I believe it's fair to say they have a right to stay. As much a right to stay as Salman Rushdie, Michael Portillo, or Prince Philip have the right to remain in the UK. The world has seen population movements from the dawn of time.

I don't believe the Argentine government is advocating the expulsion of the 2,000 British emigrants in the islands.

What they are advocating is for the right to govern the islands. Which frankly makes economic sense.
About "What they are advocating is for the right to govern the islands. Which frankly makes economic sense"

Please explain what you mean by "makes economic sense"?
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  #130  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:23
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Sure.

Hong Kong citizens didn't care to join China either, but realpolitik (and Chinese military and political might) prevailed.

This isn't about the democratic wishes of 2,000 sheepherders. Its about what the UK can get away with.

Whereas the air link between the Falklands and Argentina is essential for the well-being of the population, the air link to the UK (if it exists), while nice, is not so essential. Simple economics.

Spain was the owner of the islands from the 18th century, until Argentine independence. And Argentina, from the 1820's, until the UK seized the islands in 1833 from a nascent, and weak, Argentina.

The UK will have to understand that if it truly wants to hold on to the islands, there will be a price to pay.
About "Spain was the owner of the islands from the 18th century, until Argentine independence"
So what? Even if true which I seriously doubt.
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  #131  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:27
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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I wonder if France is selling advanced weapons again to them.
Well, they did sell them the Falklands in the first place!

Tom
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  #132  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:32
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Seems the poor lady has cancer so I suppose this topic will be quiet for a while.
My wife DIED of breast cancer, so I personally find it to be TOTALLY unacceptable to be used an excuse for wacko behavior from ANY politician!

Tom
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  #133  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:43
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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They did that & the inhabitants voted to stay British; please do some proper research before posting rubbish
Clearly, if the inhabitants have voted to "stay" British, they should be given British parliamentary representation.

Surely, it is not possible to be truly British, but have no MP? You meant second-rate "British" perhaps? Colonials?
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  #134  
Old 29.12.2011, 23:52
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Clearly, if the inhabitants have voted to "stay" British, they should be given British parliamentary representation.

Surely, it is not possible to be truly British, but have no MP? You meant second-rate "British" perhaps? Colonials?
Interesting point, but that has absolutely nothing to do with an Argentinian claim.
The Brits living in the Falklands have shown us that they want to remain as Brits. Whether they have proper representation in parliament or not is not a question of whether the inhabitants of the islands are British or not, rather that the British parliamentary system could be more democratic. Which isn't really a secret.

But all of that is a separate issue and I fail to see a link which would legitimise any Argentinian claim to the islands.

Why Argentina anyway, why not Brasil? Or why not any of the countries on the West coast of Africa? Surely they have as much of a claim as Argentina if the Argentinian claim is that they're closer to the islands than the British Isles are.
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  #135  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:02
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Clearly, if the inhabitants have voted to "stay" British, they should be given British parliamentary representation.

Surely, it is not possible to be truly British, but have no MP? You meant second-rate "British" perhaps? Colonials?
Please point out any other British geographic group with only around 2,000 people who have their own MP?
Please try to make arguments which have some basis in reality.

Even your favourite Falklands owner Argentina requires a minimum of 100,000 supporters for one representative in the government; not much chance for the Falklanders then??
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  #136  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:02
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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While I have much reservation for UK, Argentina is a struggling-democracy state and at this point in time, from an European perspective, it is good that they have a base for the UK-US allies there.
The Argentina boom is fueled by land-grabbing from the indigenous people (happening now and not just a century ago) and turning it into soya beans fields while people who subsisted on it go hungry. Nothing to boast about. No wonder the president needs to steer the media attention to some "unifying" endeavor. I wonder if France is selling advanced weapons again to them. Maybe they've included a kill-switch now?

In the nineteenth century, your argument was called "the white man's burden"... the "civilizing" duty of the colonizing powers of the day, to show the native peoples of their colonies "better".

Fortunately, today, your argument doesn't fly.

Two thousand people on a few rocks in the south atlantic might prop up the collective self esteem of a waning imperial power, but are of frankly little use otherwise.

I'm not aware of the US Navy, or anyone that truly matters, setting up a base on this crucial piece of world real estate.
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  #137  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:06
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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In the nineteenth century, your argument was called "the white man's burden"... the "civilizing" duty of the colonizing powers of the day, to show the native peoples of their colonies "better".

Fortunately, today, your argument doesn't fly.

Two thousand people on a few rocks in the south atlantic might prop up the collective self esteem of a waning imperial power, but are of frankly little use otherwise.

I'm not aware of the US Navy, or anyone that truly matters, setting up a base on this crucial piece of world real estate.
Ah good.

So you have run out of any logical arguments for Argentina to own a few rocks in the south atlantic.
So will you retire now with honour? Or keep up this irrelevant political blah blah.
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  #138  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:08
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Please point out any other British geographic group with only around 2,000 people who have their own MP?
Please try to make arguments which have some basis in reality.

Even your favourite Falklands owner Argentina requires a minimum of 100,000 supporters for one representative in the government; not much chance for the Falklanders then??

Include them in the riding of your choice, of course.

This is no excuse to disenfranchise them. Are they British, or colonials?

The Orkney and Shetland Islands share a riding, all 32,000 of them. Well bellow your 100,000 benchmark.
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  #139  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:15
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Include them in the riding of your choice, of course.

This is no excuse to disenfranchise them. Are they British, or colonials?

The Orkney and Shetland Islands share a riding, all 32,000 of them. Well bellow your 100,000 benchmark.
More blah blah
The 100,000 benchmark refers to your preferred Argentine solution not GB; please try to keep up with the thread!

Also please try to create logical arguments based on fact or I will have to add you to my ignore list.
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  #140  
Old 30.12.2011, 00:26
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Re: Argentina launches naval campaign to isolate Falkland Islands

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Interesting point, but that has absolutely nothing to do with an Argentinian claim.
The Brits living in the Falklands have shown us that they want to remain as Brits. Whether they have proper representation in parliament or not is not a question of whether the inhabitants of the islands are British or not, rather that the British parliamentary system could be more democratic. Which isn't really a secret.

But all of that is a separate issue and I fail to see a link which would legitimise any Argentinian claim to the islands.

Why Argentina anyway, why not Brasil? Or why not any of the countries on the West coast of Africa? Surely they have as much of a claim as Argentina if the Argentinian claim is that they're closer to the islands than the British Isles are.
A people with no political rights can hardly claim to be any more "British", than an 18th century American, an early 20th century Indian, or late 20th century Hong Konger. The statement just doesn't cut the mustard.

Colonial subjects? Sure. British? Not so much.

The legitimacy of Argentina's claim is simply economic.

I assume we all understand the concern with which the islanders have absorbed the news that they will not be able to trade with South American ports? I also assume we all understand that the concern would not be the same if the ban were from Alaskan ports.

Geography is key.
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