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  #21  
Old 21.12.2011, 08:16
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

i know rover had nothing to do with russians its just the guyy who bought spyker had the same business plan as the phoenix 5. as for rovers sales you have no idea! when the phoenix 5 took over rover, debt free with a 500m interest free loan with no payment plan from bmw, the mgf had been the best selling 2 seater in the uk since it was launched, the rover 25 was the best selling car in the uk at the time, the rover 75 was winning every award going and selling very well thank you. bmw offered the phoenix 5 the desgins and tooling for a new small car (alledgedly the now 1 series) and only 200m loan so they could replace the ageing 25. phoenix 5 said no, gives us the money. fiat wanted to build a small car with them, but they would have had to invest some cash, phoenix 5 said no. there where lots of oppotunities for mg rover to be saved but that was never there plan. tvr is an even sadder story and is well documented.
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  #22  
Old 21.12.2011, 08:38
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

If I had any interest in the assets of Saab, and half a brain I would wait to make a deal with the liquidator after bankruptcy and not before... There will be a phoenix from the ashes of Saab, probably Chinese.
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  #23  
Old 21.12.2011, 09:53
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Same name but two totally different companies
Now, yes, but initially they were a single company.

Tom
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  #24  
Old 21.12.2011, 09:59
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Yep they've been rubbish cars for a long time.. I should know.. I've bought 2 in the past 10 years.... a 2004 fully loaded 9-5 Aero... went like stink.. in a straight line, couldn't take a corner to save its life..
Yes, I had to rent one a few years ago in Sweden, luckily there aren't many corners in Sweden (well, not by Swiss standards)

Tom
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  #25  
Old 21.12.2011, 10:03
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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saab aero has nothing to do with saab automobil, similar with saab trucks, Scania...
Not true:

"Saab AB[3] is a Swedish aerospace and defence company, founded in 1937. From 1947 to 1990 it was the parent company of automobile manufacturer Saab Automobile, and between 1968 and 1995 the company was in a merger with commercial vehicle manufacturer Scania, known as Saab-Scania."

"Originally manufacturing aeroplanes, the company sought ways in which to diversify its business and in the late 1940s began manufacturing cars. The Saab Automobile division was based in Trollhättan. The first car was the Saab 92001, launched on 10 June 1947."

Tom
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  #26  
Old 21.12.2011, 10:22
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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The SAAB (Volvo as well) is a victim of neoliberal economic policy, submissiveness of Sweden Government, and Financialization of "real economy".
That's complete bullshit. Saab is a victim of a socialist government, high tax rates, powerful unions, the resulting exorbitant production cost and of the innovation-impeding effects of a protected home market. That's why they fell back behind German/Japanese car makers in the nineties, and that's why they finally went bust now.
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  #27  
Old 21.12.2011, 10:29
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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That's complete bullshit. Saab is a victim of a socialist government, high tax rates, powerful unions, the resulting exorbitant production cost and of the innovation-impeding effects of a protected home market. That's why they fell back behind German/Japanese car makers in the nineties, and that's why they finally went bust now.
They had a niche and the niche was not profitable. So how about blaming it on poor marketing instead? Plenty of other car manufacturers in high cost / rigid jurisdictions and they are doing just fine...
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Old 21.12.2011, 10:35
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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That's complete bullshit. Saab is a victim of a socialist government, high tax rates, powerful unions, the resulting exorbitant production cost and of the innovation-impeding effects of a protected home market. That's why they fell back behind German/Japanese car makers in the nineties, and that's why they finally went bust now.
Saab were the victim of building plain average cars overpriced in their sector.

The days of the quirky turbo 99 are long past. The LPT'ed later models gave none of the Turbo experience you would expect... They were just plain boring. Not even quirky enough to warrant alternative buyers. They just did not stack up against similar priced rivals.
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  #29  
Old 21.12.2011, 11:01
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

there are rumors that a Turkish company is considering to buy Saab...
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  #30  
Old 21.12.2011, 11:16
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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That's complete bullshit. Saab is a victim of a socialist government, high tax rates, powerful unions, the resulting exorbitant production cost and of the innovation-impeding effects of a protected home market.
That's right! High-tax, unionised, socialist-governed countries never had successful car manufacturers. U.S. and post-Thatcher UK cars rule the world!
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That's why they fell back behind German/Japanese car makers
Oh snap!
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  #31  
Old 21.12.2011, 11:24
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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there are rumors that a Turkish company is considering to buy Saab...
That's cool and all but will GM allow it? That's been the main sticking point with the Chinese deal. They don't want to give their intellectual property the Chinese...and understandably so.

If GM didn't buy Saab then Saab would be dead 20 years earlier.
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  #32  
Old 21.12.2011, 11:30
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

My SAAB 9-3 was a heap of junk - worse to drive than a Vectra, less fun to drive than most other cars I have had. Build quality was dire, the ICE was hopeless etc

SAAB died many years ago when eclectic cars and character stopped making cars sell, and people wanted ease of use and reliability
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  #33  
Old 21.12.2011, 11:40
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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SAAB died many years ago when eclectic cars and character stopped making cars sell, and people wanted ease of use and reliability


Do you see that expression on Mr. Hondas face? it says: Character and reliability do not exclude each other.
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  #34  
Old 21.12.2011, 11:42
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Do you see that expression on Mr. Hondas face? it says: Character and reliability do not exclude each other.
Are you trying to say that Hondas have character?

Tom
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  #35  
Old 21.12.2011, 11:48
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Are you trying to say that Hondas have character?

Tom
Well, comparing them to VW and Audi they sure do...
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  #36  
Old 21.12.2011, 12:16
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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My SAAB 9-3 was a heap of junk - worse to drive than a Vectra, less fun to drive than most other cars I have had. Build quality was dire, the ICE was hopeless etc

SAAB died many years ago when eclectic cars and character stopped making cars sell, and people wanted ease of use and reliability
Sadly, we ended up having to compete with the less than imaginative Japanese car makers, in comes the Jelly mould era. When it comes to aerodynamic efficiency, they all end up looking the same. There was no way brand loyalty and patriotism would suffer British Leyland cars any more...
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  #37  
Old 21.12.2011, 12:37
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Sadly, we ended up having to compete with the less than imaginative Japanese car makers, in comes the Jelly mould era. When it comes to aerodynamic efficiency, they all end up looking the same. There was no way brand loyalty and patriotism would suffer British Leyland cars any more...
..you're so right, as all the Saabs look so much different from each other. Give me a break!
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  #38  
Old 21.12.2011, 12:42
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Are you trying to say that Hondas have character?

Tom
Yes. I think Civics usually have more character than the biggest competitor, the VW Golf.

Unlike Toyotas where the excel sheet is pretty clearly king do the guys at Honda actually seem to like making cars. Their designs are not exactly everyones taste, agreed. But isn't that part of having a character?

And no brand has more motorcycle racing pedigree than Honda... right, Mr ST2?
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  #39  
Old 21.12.2011, 15:32
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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That's complete bullshit. Saab is a victim of a socialist government, high tax rates, powerful unions, the resulting exorbitant production cost and of the innovation-impeding effects of a protected home market. That's why they fell back behind German/Japanese car makers in the nineties, and that's why they finally went bust now.
That's right Teabagger! Dallas is you favorite city

Something about Socialism, for You.
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  #40  
Old 21.12.2011, 16:23
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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no brand has more motorcycle racing pedigree than Honda... right, Mr ST2?
Wrong.

MV Agusta still has more championship wins than anyone else.

Tom
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