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Old 19.12.2011, 13:11
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Bye bye Saab!

Automaker Saab finally ran out of road, and files for bankruptcy:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ller-says.html
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Old 19.12.2011, 13:17
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

another name added to dead car makers taken over by rich russians without a clue
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Old 19.12.2011, 13:21
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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another name added to dead car makers taken over by rich russians without a clue
I am a bit confused; can you clarify what you mean by this?
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Old 19.12.2011, 13:22
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

Does that mean the Swiss Air Force will ave to look elsewhere for their Tiger replacements?
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Old 19.12.2011, 13:23
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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I am a bit confused; can you clarify what you mean by this?
rich russian buys up struggling car maker and issues big promises - few months later car company goes bust, take a look at TVR
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Old 19.12.2011, 13:26
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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another name added to dead car makers taken over by rich russians without a clue
Always thought that the preference shareholders in Saab (Swedish Automobile) are General Motors, who blocked Saab's attempts at raising money with a china company - hence the bankruptcy
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Old 19.12.2011, 13:31
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

that may have been the last ditched attempt to 'save' the company, but a while ago the russians where trying to get there hands on a huge grant 300m iirc to 'save' the company, which would have (imho) ended up in some off shore private account somewhere and the company still bankrupt. looks like the owners looked to MG Rover as the perfect business plan to make shit loads of cash from a car company while running it into the ground. And just like MG Rover you go running to the cash rich Chinese when its all gone titsup, its a shame they actually have more the 10 brain cells and can see a con a mile away.
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Old 19.12.2011, 15:15
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

It was actually a Dutch company that took them over - Spiker. But GM retained an interest along with some of the intellectual property which they then used to block a chinese investment
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Old 19.12.2011, 15:18
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

Lets not lose sight of the fact that SAAB haven't made a decent car in over a decade. Modern SAABs are just expensive Opels made using the same GM parts (chassis, engine etc..) with little originality. Just compare a pre-GM 9000 to the post-GM 9-3 and one car still looks and feels solid whilst the other a tired fleet car. I'm nostalgic for the original SAABs, but not the overpriced Euroboxes that they've been churning out of late.
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Old 19.12.2011, 15:36
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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It was actually a Dutch company that took them over - Spiker. But GM retained an interest along with some of the intellectual property which they then used to block a chinese investment

and who owns (owned) spyker??

eta

http://www.swedishwire.com/business/...-saab-investor

the guy has now been arrested for fraud etc etc now, he wanted a $580m loan, no prizes for guessing where that would have ended up

ETA2

Its almost identical to mg rover, phoenix 5 'buy' the company, get a £500m 'load' sell every asset the company has and 'lease' them back, company goes under, phoenix 5 made a killing, which is exactly what they where planning to do to saab
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Old 19.12.2011, 15:49
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Lets not lose sight of the fact that SAAB haven't made a decent car in over a decade. Modern SAABs are just expensive Opels made using the same GM parts (chassis, engine etc..) with little originality. Just compare a pre-GM 9000 to the post-GM 9-3 and one car still looks and feels solid whilst the other a tired fleet car. I'm nostalgic for the original SAABs, but not the overpriced Euroboxes that they've been churning out of late.
The successor of the 9000 (which was a badge-engineered Lancia/Alfa) is the 9-5. The 9-3 followed the 900, which already was based on the Opel Vectra. The last real Saab was the one of the 1980s, which itself was based on an old-fashioned design from the 1960s. To make it short, the success of Saab was always based on crankiness rather than on superior technology.
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Old 19.12.2011, 15:59
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

My Dad drove Saabs while I was growing up. Very sad
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Old 19.12.2011, 16:03
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

Some saab Innovations


1958: The GT 750 is the first car fitted with seatbelts as standard.[73]
1963: Saab becomes the first volume maker to offer diagonally-split dual brake circuits.
1969: Saab creates an ignition system near the gearstick - instead of behind the steering wheel like most cars - in an attempt to reduce the very common serious and permanent knee injuries during collisions, caused by the knee impacting the key.
1970: Saab introduces a world-first - headlamp wipers and washers.
1971: Heated front seats are introduced, the first time in the world they are fitted as standard.
1971: Saab develops the impact-absorbing, self-repairing bumper[citation needed].
1976: Saab was the first manufacturer to produce a turbo engine with wastegate to control boost.
1978: Saab introduces another 'world-first,' the passenger compartment air filter (pollen filter).
1980: Saab introduces Automatic Performance Control (APC), and an anti-knock sensor that allowed higher fuel economy and the use of lower grade fuel without engine damage.
1981: Saab introduces the split-field side mirror. This reduces the drivers blind spot.
1982: Saab introduces asbestos-free brake pads.
1983: Saab introduces the 16-valve turbocharged engine
1985: Saab pioneers direct ignition, eliminating the distributor and spark plug wires.
1991: Saab introduces a 'light-pressure' turbo.
1991: Saab is the first manufacturer to offer CFC-free air-conditioning.
1991: Saab develops its 'Trionic' engine management system, equipped with a 32-bit micro-processor.
1993: Saab introduces the 'Sensonic clutch' and the 'Black Panel', later to be called the 'Night Panel'.
1993: Saab develops the 'Safeseat' rear passenger protection system.
1994: Saab introduces the 'Trionic T5.5' engine management system, its processor is a Motorola 68332.
1995: Saab presents an asymmetrically turbocharged V6 at the Motor Show in Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
1996: Saab introduces active head restraints (SAHR), which help minimize the risk of whiplash.
1997: Saab introduces Electronic Brake-force Distribution
1997: Saab fits ventilated front seats to their new 9-5.
1997: Saab introduces ComSense; an alert delay feature that reduces the risk of distraction by briefly postponing lower priority alerts when the brakes or indicators are activated
2000: Saab introduces SVC; a Variable Compression, an engine in which the compression ratio is varied by tilting the cylinder head in relation to the pistons.
2002: Saab developed ReAxs System provides crisp steering feedback and contributes to enhanced driving stability in curves
2003: Saab introduces CargoSET; automatic storage well retraction for the convertible, a two-step tonneau action for quicker soft-top deployment
2008: Saab introduces Cross-wheel drive, an advanced all-wheel drive system with eLSD.
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Old 19.12.2011, 22:14
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

Yep they've been rubbish cars for a long time.. I should know.. I've bought 2 in the past 10 years.... a 2004 fully loaded 9-5 Aero... went like stink.. in a straight line, couldn't take a corner to save its life.. the electrics were well dodgy.. had to sell it .. and lost a fortune.. then, practicing bangernomics, a 94 v6 900 SE, great engine, probably better built than the 2004 car and I thought it would last forever, until I had to scrap it this year due to rust, at least that didn't cost a lot.. but that was an early GM and they'd obviously eliminated all the old saab qualities by that point...

A lot of of people will bleat that that it's the passing of era.. when in fact the era passed nearly 20 years ago.
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Old 19.12.2011, 22:26
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

SAABs destiny was sealed when GM exercised its right to full ownership in 2000.

After buying 50% share in 1989 and then exercising its option of full ownership in 2000 GM then demonstrated how to run a car brand into the ground over the next 8 years.

To blame the russians, dutch or chinese is misdirected. Detroit is where the real blame lies on the demise of SAAB
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Old 19.12.2011, 22:40
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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SAABs destiny was sealed when GM exercised its right to full ownership in 2000.

After buying 50% share in 1989 and then exercising its option of full ownership in 2000 GM then demonstrated how to run a car brand into the ground over the next 8 years.

To blame the russians, dutch or chinese is misdirected. Detroit is where the real blame lies on the demise of SAAB
Saab was already on the downhill slide when GM came calling. They sold 50% to GM because they needed the cash infusion and wanted to reduce costs in order to shore up the balance sheet. They hadn't been competitive for a while and like has already been said hadn't really produced anything innovative for a lot longer than since 2000.

GM only slightly delayed what had already started. If GM hadn't run itself into the ground in the US Saab would probably have survived...but it is a shame
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Old 19.12.2011, 22:41
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Does that mean the Swiss Air Force will ave to look elsewhere for their Tiger replacements?
saab aero has nothing to do with saab automobil, similar with saab trucks, Scania...thank lord, Saab was doomed the minute the useless & terrible car company GM bought them...
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Old 19.12.2011, 23:41
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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Does that mean the Swiss Air Force will ave to look elsewhere for their Tiger replacements?
Same name but two totally different companies
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Old 21.12.2011, 01:05
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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SAABs destiny was sealed when GM exercised its right to full ownership in 2000.

After buying 50% share in 1989 and then exercising its option of full ownership in 2000 GM then demonstrated how to run a car brand into the ground over the next 8 years.

To blame the russians, dutch or chinese is misdirected. Detroit is where the real blame lies on the demise of SAAB
Absolutely correct, I read somewhere that GM had brought it specifically because of the Trionic - an engine management hardware and software. After that all GM's vehicles gets 32-bit ECU. One should bear in mind that similar fate happened to Volvo (owned by Ford), which barely survived. SAAB probably isn't the best car (nor is my favorite), but it isn't the worst, nor it has anything to do with innovation - silly argument. The SAAB (Volvo as well) is a victim of neoliberal economic policy, submissiveness of Sweden Government, and Financialization of "real economy". If German Gov. had similar attitude, Opel's production lines would have been out of business long ago.
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Old 21.12.2011, 05:07
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Re: Bye bye Saab!

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rich russian buys up struggling car maker and issues big promises - few months later car company goes bust, take a look at TVR
I am sorry to bring it to the last bastion of British cars in Switzerland:
- Rover did not go bust because of some fraudster from Russia, the main problem was that their cars were sub-standard and could not compete with German or Japanese cars anymore. They were not a happy and healthy company taking over...
- TVR was basically bankrupt for decades and always got by somehow. That's the fate of niche players and making sports cars out of plastic and glue is a niche market... same was true for decades for Lamborghini... but nobody wants to mention it now since Audi brought them up. Others actually went down and came up again with the right funds... think Bugatti.
- Have you bought a Saab in the last two decades? Me neither. Why? Cause I do not pay BMW/Audi money for a souped up Vectra. Simple as that. The company was bankrupt BEFORE the Russian guy jumped in.
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