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Old 14.03.2012, 21:14
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Even if SirWilliam has Afghan roots, it makes not make any difference to the facts, nor does it disallow his opinion. If only true Americans were allowed to give their opinion on this matter- would be a bit thin on the ground, no? let's not go into that part of history
I don't take issue with the appalling nature of the crime, but I do take issue with the nature of being berated in the sense of being morally above the crime and retreating to 'I'm English' when questioned...even when we know there's more to the story than that. I've made friends on hostile ground over beers and being questioned about Israel....I just don't like being lied to and being lectured to by someone who clearly has an agenda.
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Old 14.03.2012, 21:25
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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..... a born and bred UK type would approach this much differently.
Unless he was from Newcastle or thereaboooots.
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  #203  
Old 14.03.2012, 21:41
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Unless he was from Newcastle or thereaboooots.
I and my family are not from there but, still...I'd hate to think the language had been so abandoned. If the schools have become so bad then, oh my, America is not so bad after all as my radar for native and non-native is really rather good and may need some adjustment if this person has manage to matriculate and still write sentences as though English were a second or third language.

I've often entertained writing a book of all the mistakes students learning English from various countries make as a tool for learning since it is an extremely useful tool for both sides. Again, it's not a criticism, only an observation....
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  #204  
Old 14.03.2012, 21:51
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I and my family are not from there but, still...I'd hate to think the language had been so abandoned. If the schools have become so bad then, oh my, America is not so bad after all as my radar for native and non-native is really rather good and may need some adjustment if this person has manage to matriculate and still write sentences as though English were a second or third language.

I've often entertained writing a book of all the mistakes students learning English from various countries make as a tool for learning since it is an extremely useful tool for both sides. Again, it's not a criticism, only an observation....
I still can't understand how his grammar or whatever language errors can make a difference; why is so important to you if he's a native speaker or learned English as a second language?
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Old 14.03.2012, 21:58
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I still can't understand how his grammar or whatever language errors can make a difference; why is so important to you if he's a native speaker or learned English as a second language?
It makes a difference if he retreats to a nationality (English) which clearly isn't his mother tongue in an argument that is politically charged and condescending (hello, there are plenty of brit in Afghanistan) along with mentioning other Middle Eastern issues. Again, language isn't the point, but it is a point at which we know he's lying and I do hate being schooled by those who are liars, by those who don't have the nuts to say who they are, where they are from and how their opinions are formed. He may carry a UK passport but, he's not English (coming from someone with a Scouser dad, has a UK passport but never claims being English because I grew up in the states and though I lived in London for 7 years, well, I'm not...).
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Old 14.03.2012, 22:04
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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If only EF members from the US had said the same from the start- this whole thread would have gone away.
Why

I'm not from the US, and don't agree with the entire tone of this thread and the US bashing that has gone on. I don't think anyone has denied that the shooter committed a terrible act, or feels no sympathy for the bereaved families. However it's just not cricket to lay the blame on a nation rather than an individual. Neither is wishing to try to look to the root cause which triggered the action of the poor guy.... so yes I have some sympathy for the soldier who is also a victim, but it does not excuse his actions.
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  #207  
Old 14.03.2012, 22:16
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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No, it's not your grammar, rather the mistakes you make in both idiomatic English as well as how you phrase your thoughts. Even those who don't learn English well in school...you make your mistakes differently. As someone who has had lived abroad a very long time, married to a fluent non-native (whose English I have rare occasion to correct but do sometimes and advise on how to improve it) and had European parents, I'm pretty sure you aren't telling the truth as to the language you were inculcated with in your very early formative years. I know plenty of Scots who, even rather uneducated, can form a thought much more clearly in English than you. Again, this isn't to criticize your English skills, but to define better your political background since, again, a born and bred UK type would approach this much differently.
You are wrong poptart,really and honestly.My English language skills may not be what you consider typical and my thought pattern may be confused at times or travelling faster than my fingers can type,but i was born in England of English parents,educated in England,worked and played in England (i think my fathers side of the family arrived at England along with William the Conquer,a thosand years ago,so maybe its French you can detect ).I`m not sure how else i can put it.You may be an expert at telling where people come from,or where they were educated or in what language by reading their point of view on this that or the other,but with me you are wrong.

My idiomatic phrasing may be a wee bit cock eyed,or not typically English ,but this is just the way i speak/write and as a Brit i know full well i am far from alone.

"...a born and bred UK type would approach this differently."
Possibly in your ever increasingly limited looking experience Poptart,but apparently not necessarily.
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  #208  
Old 14.03.2012, 22:25
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I know it seems like ages ago and manufacturing evidence for war may seem like a small point to you but the world over knows this picture as well as what it represents - even if you apparently feel it requires some work on your part to understand that...It's a picture that symbolizes the violent state the US has become using imaginary WMDs as a pretext for mass destruction & genocide
Oh and Turkey genocide never happened, right?
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  #209  
Old 14.03.2012, 22:39
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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If only EF members from the US had said the same from the start- this whole thread would have gone away.
Odile;I am sure there where lots of white wash thru American history,but this is not what I disputing here .Since 2003 America ,GB,Can,G.and more are at war with a enemy the cant see.10 years almost ,from 250000 to about 13000 Americans at present.There where many incident involving American individuals (Criminals) .What angers me is painting every American,service man and citizen with the same brush
At the moment there are six ex service man on death row.
In the latest incident we do not know all the circumstances ,wile some armchair judges here already have the nut head in question hung

Last edited by cannut; 14.03.2012 at 23:24.
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  #210  
Old 14.03.2012, 23:53
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

Wow, talk about going off topic.
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  #211  
Old 15.03.2012, 01:58
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Why

I'm not from the US, and don't agree with the entire tone of this thread and the US bashing that has gone on. I don't think anyone has denied that the shooter committed a terrible act, or feels no sympathy for the bereaved families. However it's just not cricket to lay the blame on a nation rather than an individual. Neither is wishing to try to look to the root cause which triggered the action of the poor guy.... so yes I have some sympathy for the soldier who is also a victim, but it does not excuse his actions.
That kind of rational thinking simply isn't good enough for some people.
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Old 15.03.2012, 09:31
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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It makes a difference if he retreats to a nationality (English) which clearly isn't his mother tongue in an argument that is politically charged and condescending (hello, there are plenty of brit in Afghanistan)
What are you a forrrener?? Poptart? How many Vowel's that got...like 5 O's and 2 U's??

Seriously his grammar and his nationality is irrelevant? Its obvious you want to know his nationality so you can do the typical..."Well your people did X to people Z" argument. It doesn't apply, what this soldier did is his fault...but its our "know it all" government that presented the situation. For what? To spend billions of dollars chasing ex-goat farmers equipped with 70's style weapons. And he was right to bring up the Vietnam War.....what happened there should have been a huge lesson to us but somehow killing a couple million south asians and 55K US soldiers only to be preferred trading partners with the same communist regime 40 years later doesn't compute.
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Old 15.03.2012, 10:17
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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My idiomatic phrasing may be a wee bit cock eyed,or not typically English ,but this is just the way i speak/write and as a Brit i know full well i am far from alone.
Well, this might explain why so many Brits seem to be fleeing the UK as though it were the third world. If both your parents are native English speakers and you were born, raised and educated there...wow, then your English is rather appalling and worth much more consideration and thought than whatever America is doing in the sands of other countries.
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Old 15.03.2012, 10:39
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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It makes a difference if he retreats to a nationality (English) which clearly isn't his mother tongue in an argument that is politically charged and condescending (hello, there are plenty of brit in Afghanistan) along with mentioning other Middle Eastern issues. Again, language isn't the point, but it is a point at which we know he's lying and I do hate being schooled by those who are liars, by those who don't have the nuts to say who they are, where they are from and how their opinions are formed. He may carry a UK passport but, he's not English (coming from someone with a Scouser dad, has a UK passport but never claims being English because I grew up in the states and though I lived in London for 7 years, well, I'm not...).
Oh well, on the internet forums everyone can point a finger, cast stones, present themselves as morally above, while the same time pretending to be something they are not. We can't know the hidden agenda behind some posts; nevertheless, no matter his language, style, choise of words etc. I am of the opinion that he really is expressing some real sentiments towards the recent American foreign policy, that people from many places around the globe have, and you know it. It is a pitty that the image of America and what it stands for is deteriorating, a pitty that people in Europe start to forget the American contribution during the world wars, the way America was looked to for salvation. But recent incidents in Afghanistan, or Iraq were really appalling, and I believe people are expecting some firm measures to be taken so that things like that won't happen anymore. Maybe an end of these wars?
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Old 15.03.2012, 10:41
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Well, this might explain why so many Brits seem to be fleeing the UK as though it were the third world. If both your parents are native English speakers and you were born, raised and educated there...wow, then your English is rather appalling and worth much more consideration and thought than whatever America is doing in the sands of other countries.

So your`e the EF Scientology freak,faaaaaaaair enough!
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Old 15.03.2012, 10:49
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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That kind of rational thinking simply isn't good enough for some people.
"I'd like my moral outrage with a spoonful of dehumanization of the perpetrator, please."
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Old 15.03.2012, 11:26
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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It is a pitty that the image of America and what it stands for is deteriorating, a pitty that people in Europe start to forget the American contribution during the world wars, the way America was looked to for salvation.
Unfortunately, part of what America stands (stood?) for is deteriorating even, or maybe even more obviously, from within. Some of the recent news articles from there, about laws being passed, about the "wonderful" guys running for Prez, really make me consider never moving back, or at least, not until some of the newer laws are repealed. One thing for certain - Arizona is NOT on my shortlist of places to ever live. (Buncha wackadoodle voting going on there for sure, there should be a law limiting the number of retirees moving to any one specific state...)

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But recent incidents in Afghanistan, or Iraq were really appalling, and I believe people are expecting some firm measures to be taken so that things like that won't happen anymore. Maybe an end of these wars?
The second statement is the key to the first.

No more wars, no more occasions of "things like that" happening. Well, maybe not no more as there are plenty of people with mental health issues the world over, but quite likely a sharp lessening of them.
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Old 15.03.2012, 11:49
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

[QUOTE=Peg A;1514076]there for sure, there should be a law limiting the number of retirees moving to any one specific state...)

YES! There should be a law that says that a town should have no more than 20% retirees by volume.
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Old 15.03.2012, 11:56
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

Bill Hicks,would of made a wonderful President.

A great humanitarian and American.

God rest his soul.
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Old 15.03.2012, 12:17
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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there for sure, there should be a law limiting the number of retirees moving to any one specific state...)

YES! There should be a law that says that a town should have no more than 20% retirees by volume.
Yes, living in the "Florida" of Switzerland, I can definitely relate to that!

Tom
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