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  #61  
Old 13.03.2012, 01:48
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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You are saying all this, but, of course I have to ask, have you watched any US news reporting on the issue as of yet?
Not sure if it counts,but CNN.

I should add that i would like to see the BBC report the dead from the British military in a more human way and not so statistical.

The phrase "civiliam casualties" just does`nt get near the `pain of death`.
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  #62  
Old 13.03.2012, 01:59
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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You're reacting as if this was Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy, not a soldier who was in a wartime situation for some time...

This was (most likely) a man under pressure who had something go wrong inside - not (likely) some psychopath who set out to kill women and children for fun as part of a daily routine.

All the other Western soldiers up in Afghanistan
- also were in a wartime situation for some time
- also were/are under pressure
but do not run beserk, while he did

The problem in Afghanistan exactly is that there is not a "normal" wartime situation, but an endless semi-war with no breakthrough and no success and no end in sight, and THIS can be dangerous to the psychological situation of many soldiers. It was similar for many French soldiers in 1950es Algeria, where many of them committed gruesome crimes, simply out of being rather deranged. As a result, adults were massacred, children were killed and other children severely wounded. If you were a child on the victims side you could later on forgive and clean your mind, but what about the children of the culprits ?
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  #63  
Old 13.03.2012, 02:11
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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You have a point there, but: Can you name me some countries in which "foreign victims abroad" regularly cause as much attention in the media as "one-of-us victims anywhere" or "any victim back home"? In which media reports aren't tailored to the "domestic market"? In which military law allows extradition of own troops abroad to local authorities? If not, then don't let your posts sound like you would point out some habits which are particularly American and would be seen as almost bizarre everywhere else.

True i can`t think of any media that reports the horrors of war from the victims point of view,that is the foriegners point of view.But this is no justification is it?America is after oil and people have and will be murdered for it.I think it is a good idea to keep a look out.But i take your point,America is not alone in home style reporting.

(Documentaries are another kettle of fish and i think both the US and UK have done well in that field.)

I pointed out i would like to see the American media report this crime that way because it would do the world some good,hopefully.

I really don`t know about the civil or military laws (i mean the law is very complicated),but i should think the handing over of a potential/accused criminal from one country to another country (host country) for judgement, is not totally unheard of.
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  #64  
Old 13.03.2012, 03:27
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Not sure if it counts,but CNN.

I should add that i would like to see the BBC report the dead from the British military in a more human way and not so statistical.

The phrase "civiliam casualties" just does`nt get near the `pain of death`.
These were not civilians killed by an act of war, these were civilians killed by a nutter acting alone.
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  #65  
Old 13.03.2012, 10:55
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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that's why I posted the link to the latest Syrian atrocities of today (torture and massacre of children and women)...
he's doing the same as last time, lamenting how terrible americans are and ignoring the atrocities which are part of every war (including the inner-arab ones). it's not not like the american army had any copyright on being nasty...
When I posted the other post, I understood that it shouldn't have been posted the way it had - in addition to that, when I put myself in others place who got offended by it, I thought that I would definitely feel the same as they felt and maybe more.

I tried here not to offend, but sadly the murderer nationailty was written in the news, I couldn't find any other news post about the same topic not stating the murderer nationality - and I tried not to write any nationality in the title or in my post.

But actually this is not my concern, we have a big deal here and people are leaving it aside, putting some excuses and looking into how other countries did the same - I am not attacking you or your home country, I am sharing a news that made my blood boils and it is strange that some people here forgot about the topic and started to get nervous about the poster.

We are all human beings, we all do mistakes and that is what is life is all about, level of mistakes differ due to circumstances, and the power one have, the more the power the worse it gets, I hope that guy who did so, now is really regretting what he has done.

God only knows the intent of each one of us, but as this forum is to share opinions, ideas and thoughts - then I see no problem in posting news in a polite respectable way.

People in developing countries cannot contribute in their governmental decisions, but You inhabitants of developed countries can do so, so please think and look for any possitive way of doing so - you will not be known or recognized personally but make sure you will be highly appreciated by all the world.

If you know a kind person, who died normally on his bed without any attack, wont you feel sad and sorry for his departure, the wound is greater when it happens the same way this happened here.

I realise that there are awful war crimes done everywhere by people regardless of their nationality but this doesn't mean that we take this as an excuse trying to find a way to defend that criminal just because you feel I am against all his nationals (which is not true).

One other thing that makes the one sad here, is you never hear what the Afghani government did or willing to do, which means their citizens are as cheap as chickens that you buy from the supermarket to have lunch - that happens also in a lot of other countries including my home country.

Let us agree that politics is a dirty game, and at then end humans are humans regardless of their nationalities - they have the good and the bad.

At the end, we are all departing - causes differ but its one end, burried underneath.
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  #66  
Old 13.03.2012, 11:08
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I tried here not to offend, but sadly the murderer nationailty was written in the news, I couldn't find any other news post about the same topic not stating the murderer nationality - and I tried not to write any nationality in the title or in my post.
It sure seems that "American soldier" is something that jumps out at you when you're reading the news.

Others have posted about other war crimes committed, others have posted about other allied soldiers committing atrocious acts - and yet, the ones YOU post are about American soldiers.

Why is that?
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Old 13.03.2012, 11:08
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

Be carefull when fighting the lions that you don't become a lion yourself.

On that basis the soldier in question does not deserve to be hung by the US military. An attempt should be made to rehabilitate the man. Let's not forget that we all know very little about the soldier. His childhood etc.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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  #68  
Old 13.03.2012, 11:18
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Not sure if it counts,but CNN.

I should add that i would like to see the BBC report the dead from the British military in a more human way and not so statistical.

The phrase "civiliam casualties" just does`nt get near the `pain of death`.
You mean like this?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._afghan13.html

Thanks for thinking we're all unfeeling monsters. Will look for you walking around Ireland in a burlap sack going door-to-door apologizing.
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  #69  
Old 13.03.2012, 11:22
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I tried here not to offend
And, yet, you seem oddly obsessed by any American soldier that does something bad (even if that something is not something he was ordered to do) yet you can't seem to find *any* balance in what you post? You don't seem to make any posts about the Taliban pulling girls out of schools built by the Americans and British and stoning them. You don't talk about the acid attacks. Why is that do you think? You don't talk about the community engagement teams of Americans and British soliders. Why is that?
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Old 13.03.2012, 11:31
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ies-statistics
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  #71  
Old 13.03.2012, 12:04
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I realise that there are awful war crimes done everywhere by people regardless of their nationality but this doesn't mean that we take this as an excuse trying to find a way to defend that criminal just because you feel I am against all his nationals (which is not true).
This is not a war crime, it's a guy acting alone gone mental.

The US are more than aware of the crime he has committed and the tarnish it has done to American forces.

He'll get his comeuppance.
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Old 13.03.2012, 12:51
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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This is not a war crime, it's a guy acting alone gone mental.

The US are more than aware of the crime he has committed and the tarnish it has done to American forces.

He'll get his comeuppance.
I agree that this was a criminal act by an individual who will be punished for his crimes.
If you want a good example of a war crime, you only have to look at the massacre of women and children in Homs on Sunday. The culprits were the regime backed Shabiha militia, the dreggs of society who clearly think nothing of slitting the throats of women and children to spread fear. I hope Bashar-al-Assad and his Mary Antoinette wife hang for their crimes.
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  #73  
Old 13.03.2012, 12:57
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I hope we bring all of our soldiers home and let people elsewhere figure it out for themselves. they've only had some 2,000+ years to find a way to stop killing each other, after all.
what a shame, you can go anywhere in the world and kill just to teach them how to live and they cant kill you cos they are killers already !
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  #74  
Old 13.03.2012, 15:27
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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You mean like this?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._afghan13.html

Thanks for thinking we're all unfeeling monsters. Will look for you walking around Ireland in a burlap sack going door-to-door apologizing.
I never said all Americans were "unfeeling monsters."
I did post Britain had commited crimes in Ireland and else-where to offer some balance,to show i think that my country are no angels.

The link you offer reads well and looks more like it.I know that some media in the US tell the truth,as some in GB do too.A less patriotic view point,less `then and us`and less sweeping bad home news under the carpet.I would like to see in general,the British and American media really `go to town`on the sadness both our nations sometimes cause (not forgetting other nations and how difficult the military jo is).I think it might do some good and this has really been my point throughout.
I could of perhaps made this point with a greater sense of decorum and for that i apoligise.
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Old 13.03.2012, 15:42
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I would like to see in general,the British and American media really `go to town`on the sadness both our nations sometimes cause (not forgetting other nations and how difficult the military jo is).
Did you read the article linked in post 68? Or even the original article? I can't see a news source going any further, especially at this stage in the timeline. The Seattle Times article shows the father looking over the charred remains on the floor. They quote him,
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"I don't know why they killed them," Samad, a short, feeble man with a white beard and white turban, said as he struggled in an interview to come to terms with the loss of his wife, four daughters between the ages of 2 and 6, four sons between 8 and 12, and two other relatives.
Any sane person of at least average intelligence will understand how horrifying and terribly sad this event is. I really don't understand what you want here? It seems you are implying that there is an effort on the part of the media to downplay this and other events, yet, for them to go beyond would be to overstep what they are there for- reporting the news. We read it, watch it, and form our own opinions about events. That's a great system.
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Old 13.03.2012, 15:42
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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what a shame, you can go anywhere in the world and kill just to teach them how to live and they cant kill you cos they are killers already !
I'm not sure if you are putting words in my mouth or simply don't communicate clearly. I simply stated my ongoing hope that we bring all US soldiers back home where they belong.

our Middle East "policy" is the same as teaching a pig to speak Swiss German - it isn't working, and it is only annoying the pig.

P.S. in no way am I intending to compare anybody to a "pig", the above phrase is simply an old colloquialism meant to convey the futility of certain actions.
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  #77  
Old 13.03.2012, 16:32
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Did you read the article linked in post 68? Or even the original article? I can't see a news source going any further, especially at this stage in the timeline. The Seattle Times article shows the father looking over the charred remains on the floor. They quote him,
Any sane person of at least average intelligence will understand how horrifying and terribly sad this event is. I really don't understand what you want here? It seems you are implying that there is an effort on the part of the media to downplay this and other events, yet, for them to go beyond would be to overstep what they are there for- reporting the news. We read it, watch it, and form our own opinions about events. That's a great system.

Yes,it looks as if so far this story is getting a fair hearing,i accept that and thanks for the links.It`ll be interesting to see how this particular war crime goes.

Without a shadow of doubt the American media and military (same for GB) have down played or ignored their previous war crimes,let`s not pretend otherwise.Over 300 war crimes in Vietnam were eventually recognised publicly by the US,eventually.Then there`s the sentencing of the disgusting "My Lai Massacre".One bloke got a slightly slapped wrist,a couple of years or so in prison,or actually a house arrest punishment.That must of been "awful" for him.Between 300 and 500 Vietnam unarmed civillians were murdered by the American Army,woman and children of course.Not one nutter on the loose that time,but cold blooded mass murder.

Likewise the British Army at Batang Kali,Malaya,1948.The British cold bloodedly murdered 24 men.The Conservative British Goverment of the early 70s dropped an investigation,but a BBC documentary in the early 90s produced much new evidence and confessions of bloody mass murder.

The American media have embarressingly also created heroes where there were none in the past.

I am after (as you put it) a sense of fair play and an understanding of the pain war victims suffer.

The West could stop pretending to do no wrong and then we might be better off for it,more humane.US and GB.
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  #78  
Old 13.03.2012, 17:03
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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You're reacting as if this was Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy, not a soldier who was in a wartime situation for some time...

This was (most likely) a man under pressure who had something go wrong inside - not (likely) some psychopath who set out to kill women and children for fun as part of a daily routine.

yeah, that poor poor soldier, maybe his daddy even spanked him when he was a kid, thats totally understandable what he did to those babies: killing them in their sleep, piling their bodies and burning them

sorry, i know it sounds horrible to describe his acts, but we need to keep things in context here
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  #79  
Old 13.03.2012, 17:07
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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The American media have embarressingly also created heroes where there were none in the past.....
The West could stop pretending to do no wrong and then we might be better off for it,more humane.US and GB.
I think you'll find people that go out and die for their country are heroes. Always have been, always will be. Check your history books.

There's always a few incidents, this being one at the extreme end of the scale.

You are talking a lot of anti-American, and now British, crap.

I'm surprised you haven't got onto the Boer War yet, or is that coming?
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Old 13.03.2012, 17:42
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I think you'll find people that go out and die for their country are heroes. Always have been, always will be. Check your history books.

There's always a few incidents, this being one at the extreme end of the scale.

You are talking a lot of anti-American, and now British, crap.

I'm surprised you haven't got onto the Boer War yet, or is that coming?
I must of missed it,where did i post people who have given their lives are not heroes?

Not very palatable is it,but there should be more `looking in the mirror`for the US and GB.

I`m English,i love the UK/GB and its people,i am not anti British and i`ll ask you not to accuse me of being anti my own people.

Getting over patriotic is daft mate and accusing people of being anti GB is a form of covert form of bullying.Just ask plenty of Americans who in modern times have been nervous to speak there mind because of people like you.

It`s healthy to try and understand it all but if your`e not interested then i won`t bother with you.
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