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  #101  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:09
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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He did sign up for it (after 9/11, if I remember correctly) and of course he was paid for his service. However, I don't think ANY soldier can truly understand "what he was in for" until he's in the thick of things.

Recently I was talking with someone who had a long military career and was involved in patroling the no fly zone during Operation Desert Storm. To hear him tell it, the idea of combat had been purely academic up until that point (after 15 years of flying fighters) and he's just recently begun to tell friends outside of the military about some of his experiences while in the no fly zone and facing enemy aircraft--and that's been 20-ish years ago!

Multiply that combat stress by 4 tours on the ground, and I can see how someone could become mentally "cracked" by battle. Not excusing what this soldier did at all, but only saying that I'm sure he didn't understand what going to war REALLY was until he was in the middle of it.

you are making a big mistake here. just from a technical point, there is a big difference between instintc of survival and hatred toward enemy, and killing their children in their sleep. The former is justified during conflict, the latter is a war crime of the worst kind.
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  #102  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:11
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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I am thinking of all the mothers PopTart - but especially those who have to live with this stuff day in, night out. Those who cannot be separate from war 1000s of miles away and idealise what some of the so-called heroes do. Those whose kids get blown up as collateral damage, and shot in their sleep because a soldier has 'lost it'. That does not make it anti American.

Trivialising this by discussing the finer points of the English language is wicked imho.
Another non-native English speaking Brit
I didn't say it made it right...just that as a mother...what would you do?

As far as the English goes, I think it's very on topic as I think he's rattling cages and then retreating behind a UK passport.....imagine someone bashing on Switzerland, in Swiss German, only to be outed as a recent immigrant. It's important as we aren't what we speak, but where we grew up and who we are. You spent 20+ years in the UK, write excellent english, but I'll be that you don't claim you're English and I do note on occasion certain 'tells' that would give you away anyway. Identity is complicated and, again, I wasn't trying to derail the conversation, but I do think this person has an agenda that isn't entirely forthcoming. I'm not being wicked...just curious from an academic standpoint and from a POV that I am rather sure he isn't and that's relevant.
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  #103  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:16
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

Poptart, most of the NATO-member countries have troops in Afghanistan, and not only there. I hear all the time in Romanian mass media about soldiers coming back home, but in coffins.

1,800 people is it enough? Can I have a say then?

Last edited by greenmount; 13.03.2012 at 22:56.
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  #104  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:22
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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you are making a big mistake here. just from a technical point, there is a big difference between instintc of survival and hatred toward enemy, and killing their children in their sleep. The former is justified during conflict, the latter is a war crime of the worst kind.
I understand that there's a HUGE difference between "survival instinct" and killing anyone's children in their sleep. My point was that it took my friend 20 years to start talking about his war experiences. Meanwhile, this soldier who committed these atrocious crimes has been deployed 4 times in his 10 year career into various war zones, likely with no significant psychological support/examination between deployments. Again, I'm not justifying his actions and I don't see how anyone really could. I just think we need to look at this act in the proper context--overextended military overlooking the psychological effects of war on its soldiers and continuing to deploy them repeatedly.
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  #105  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:22
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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yes, my countrymen happen to be there.

you know very well that the soldier or any other american soldier is not getting anything more than 10yrs+possibility of parole no matter what they do.

what does any of this have to do with your ex-soldier father?
Bollocks. Anyone killing women and children is going to get the maximum sentence...it's like being a child molester...they may not kill you outright but the prison population will see to it that you never see the outside. I think this boy will get the chair as it's a particularly evil crime.

As far as my Brit father goes, being a Marine has a special mojo added to it as these are guys who are especially moral...I wore my dad's dress jacket to a pub once and was nearly tackled by a Marine until he realised it was my Dad's and that I had just come from the funeral. These guys are all about the brotherhood and look after each other and ...well, Semper Fi. Honorable.
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  #106  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:29
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Bollocks. Anyone killing women and children is going to get the maximum sentence...it's like being a child molester...they may not kill you outright but the prison population will see to it that you never see the outside. I think this boy will get the chair as it's a particularly evil crime.
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  #107  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:29
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Bollocks. Anyone killing women and children is going to get the maximum sentence...it's like being a child molester...they may not kill you outright but the prison population will see to it that you never see the outside. I think this boy will get the chair as it's a particularly evil crime.

As far as my Brit father goes, being a Marine has a special mojo added to it as these are guys who are especially moral...I wore my dad's dress jacket to a pub once and was nearly tackled by a Marine until he realised it was my Dad's and that I had just come from the funeral. These guys are all about the brotherhood and look after each other and ...well, Semper Fi. Honorable.
yeah, sure:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80M1U620120123

"He faces a maximum sentence of three months of confinement, forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay for three months and a reduction in rank when he is sentenced on Tuesday, a Camp Pendleton spokesman"
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  #108  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:36
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

What does a drunk driving incident while under diplomatic immunity have to do with the slaughter of children?

I have a friend here who made the mistake of stopping a man from beating a woman to a pulp; in turn, friend got beaten to within an inch of his life. The mistake was not knowing the attacker had immunity. Friend's an invalid now, attacker free and clear. DI is an issue and matter of discussion all to itself.
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  #109  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:41
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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yeah, sure:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80M1U620120123

"He faces a maximum sentence of three months of confinement, forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay for three months and a reduction in rank when he is sentenced on Tuesday, a Camp Pendleton spokesman"
Considering Turkey's human rights record and the attitude to people criticizing it (i.e. Turkey is the current world leader in jailed journalists) I find F16s opinion about war crimes very brave.
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  #110  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:44
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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yeah, sure:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80M1U620120123

"He faces a maximum sentence of three months of confinement, forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay for three months and a reduction in rank when he is sentenced on Tuesday, a Camp Pendleton spokesman"
How is a DUI comparative to 16 dead women and children? Not that I don't get the injustice just....how is this comparable?
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  #111  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:47
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Considering Turkey's human rights record and the attitude to people criticizing it (i.e. Turkey is the current world leader in jailed journalists) I find F16s opinion about war crimes very brave.
this coming from an israeli? nice indeed

i said it before, i am all for the harshest punishment of whoever commits a war crime against anybody. actually, i prefer it to be harsher if the perpetrator was one of my countrymen, for bringing extra shame to my nation and myself
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  #112  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:49
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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How is a DUI comparative to 16 dead women and children? Not that I don't get the injustice just....how is this comparable?
??

this is about haditha massacre, where american soldiers gunned down 20+ iraqi civilians
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  #113  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:50
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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What does a drunk driving incident while under diplomatic immunity have to do with the slaughter of children?

.
They were both comitted by American soldiers; of course you cannot compare the level of atrocity, only the way these sort of incidents are handled, one had the escape door being under "diplomatic immunity", the other will have the excuse he was "in 3 tours" . In the first case we talk about a partner country!!!
Ah never mind, we all shall live and see.
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  #114  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:53
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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i said it before, i am all for the harshest punishment of whoever commits a war crime against anybody. actually, i prefer it to be harsher if the perpetrator was one of my countrymen, for bringing extra shame to my nation and myself
Now you're talking! I heard that some places they stone people to death for bringing shame, that ought to do it, eh?

Since we're now bringing in whatever news item suits our fancy, how about bludgeoning and shooting emo kids?

58 Emo kids killed in Iraq

Yeah yeah, it's Iraq, not nearly as advanced as Afghanistan, but you get the picture.
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  #115  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:57
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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this coming from an israeli? nice indeed

i said it before, i am all for the harshest punishment of whoever commits a war crime against anybody. actually, i prefer it to be harsher if the perpetrator was one of my countrymen, for bringing extra shame to my nation and myself
Israel's human rights record is far better than Turkey's.

Will you call for the harsh punishment for Turkish soldiers who committed war crimes (no shortage of those) while in Turkey ?

Whatever happened to the Turkish killers of 35 civilians ?
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  #116  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:57
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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??

this is about haditha massacre, where american soldiers gunned down 20+ iraqi civilians
I think you're baiting and switching, also known as a red herring. I'd still like to hear from the OP, since he's not a native english speaker, where he's from and what his real agenda is.
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  #117  
Old 13.03.2012, 22:58
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Now you're talking! I heard that some places they stone people to death for bringing shame, that ought to do it, eh?

Since we're now bringing in whatever news item suits our fancy, how about bludgeoning and shooting emo kids?

58 Emo kids killed in Iraq

Yeah yeah, it's Iraq, not nearly as advanced as Afghanistan, but you get the picture.
?

you for real?


example i brought is about another similar massacre by american soldiers, which is totally relevant to this thread

example you put forth is about satanist/gay kids being killed in iraq?

seems you had a few too many drinks tonight. bye
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  #118  
Old 13.03.2012, 23:00
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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Israel's human rights record is far better than Turkey's.

Will you call for the harsh punishment for Turkish soldiers who committed war crimes (no shortage of those) while in Turkey ?

Whatever happened to the Turkish killers of 35 civilians ?
read the previous related post. and go ahead, tell us what you think about your soldiers killing civilians just yesterday. i bet you will never ever accept it, or criticize anybody from your tribe.

my hat is off to you if you prove me wrong
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  #119  
Old 13.03.2012, 23:04
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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this coming from an israeli? nice indeed

i said it before, i am all for the harshest punishment of whoever commits a war crime against anybody. actually, i prefer it to be harsher if the perpetrator was one of my countrymen, for bringing extra shame to my nation and myself
fyi, the Turkish government was responsible for one of the most horrific war crimes of the 20th Century. and I bet the US government ensures that the families of the victims in Afghanistan get "justice" long before the Turkish government can even bring itself to admit its involvement in past war crimes.

the events in Afghanistan are inexcusable and horrific, but you're painting with far too broad a brush all over this thread.
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  #120  
Old 13.03.2012, 23:06
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Re: Nato Soldier shot dead 16 civilians including children in Afghanistan

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read the previous related post. and go ahead, tell us what you think about your soldiers killing civilians just yesterday. i bet you will never ever accept it, or criticize anybody from your tribe.

my hat is off to you if you prove me wrong
Oh dear, now I now what sort of hat it is, school cap right... and is 16 your age.

Last edited by Papa Goose; 13.03.2012 at 23:23.
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