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  #21  
Old 13.04.2012, 13:55
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

Question 2: which are the banks Wikipaedia is talking about here?

In an article published by Reuterson February 23, 2008, Brazilian public prosecutor Karen Kahn announced that several employees of a Swiss bank as well as others from another Swiss bank were under investigation by federal authorities. In 2007, police arrested 20 people, including bankers at another Swiss bank, a Swiss bank & a private bank after the discovery of illegal activities including money laundering, tax evasion, fraudulent banking and operating without a banking license. During the course of Operation Switzerland in 2008, Christian Peter Weiss and 13 other employees of a Swiss bank were arrested in Rio de Janeiro for helping operate an illegal money transfer scheme.

The New York Times
reported on December 16, 2009, that Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morganthau, the United States Department of Justice and Federal Reserve had reached an agreement with a Swiss bank in which a Swiss bank was fined $536 million. A Swiss bank settled on charges that it violated sanctions regulating financial transactions with Iran. The charges included "stripping", the practice of removing the identity and origin of funds used in transactions. Swiss bank employees stripped the identities of Iranian banks enabling funds to be transferred to the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran and the Aerospace Industries Organization, entities respectively involved in the production of nuclear weapons and long range missiles. A Swiss bank advised Iranian banks such as Bank Melli and Bank Saderat on methods to hide their identities and send more than a billion dollars through New York banks.

In 2009 a federal bankruptcy judge in Montana accused the Swiss bank of "naked greed" so overreaching as to "shock the conscience of the court." The judge was referring to an alleged "loan to own" scheme between the Swiss bank and
Yellowstone Club founder Tim Blixseth in which the Swiss bank lent the private ski and golf club $375 million, $210 million of which Blixseth took as a personal payment. This payment sparked a lawsuit by club investor Greg LeMond, charges of tax evasion by state governments and eventually led to the Club's bankruptcy. The Yellowstone Club - Blixseth court findings opened the doors to other suits targeting A Swiss bank with predatory lending practices. The Swiss bank faces $2 billion civil suit by Tim Blixseth and a class action lawsuit led by Blixseth's son Beau seeking $24 billion in claims associated with the Yellowstone Club and for similar real estate deals in Idaho, Nevada and the Bahamas.

In 2011 the Swiss bank, facing a U.S. Department of Justice probe, reportedly agreed to settle claims they aided clients evade U.S. taxes through secret accounts and other dealings to avoid a formal federal indictment. The agreement reports to include paying more than US$1 billion in fines and releasing details on U.S. account holders and related deals where the bank may have aided clients in evading U.S. taxes.


Answer: NOT the Migros, nor the Coop bank, nor Raiffeisen...
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  #22  
Old 13.04.2012, 13:55
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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Oh dear some of you have very short memories... maybe you can remember this company, the fourth largest in the USA! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_Brothers

and it was recommended right up to the end by... yes Credit Suisse!
You may scoff, but fundamentally if large companies that deal with "legit" investments every day get conned, WTF makes you think that your average punter like me will be able to spot the difference in these kind of situations vs. your cold-call fraud? Seriously guys, either you work in banking and know/understand the minutia of all this, or you have a natural understanding of all this, or you just aren't realistic

@ Reb, yes.

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Financial institutions were conned by Bernie Madoff (including HSBC apparently), as well as charitable organizations and many, many wealthy individuals. If you think it couldn't happen to you, then who is the fool?
Yein.

1) Madoff was a legit punter to start off with, and I can imagine that a lot of his investors gave him more credit than due (pun intended), as a result of this
2) It was a Ponzi scheme, meaning that people as some point did get "returns", thereby feeding the system and impacting on (1)
3) The type of "cold-call" boiler room fraud executed by the OP's example isn't in the same category as this, while being very slick, it is small fry in comparison.
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  #23  
Old 13.04.2012, 13:57
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

So all of you are no better than the 80 year old man are you? Maybe smugness does not befit you?
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:04
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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So all of you are no better than the 80 year old man are you? Maybe smugness does not befit you?
Nope. I don't think the comparisons being made are valid. You are bringing up stuff that is completely irrelevant to the type of Fraud in the OP's post. Not much to discuss there.
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:13
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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So all of you are no better than the 80 year old man are you? Maybe smugness does not befit you?
My thinking has always been "invest in real estate, at least you will always have a roof over your head." Oh, no, wait..... earthquake....... oh well.......

Lets fact it - all of life is a gamble, with us all having millions of choices to make along the way. Some work, some don't.

Re the original story: There is no reason for family to have known how the man was investing his money, but if he was living in poverty, why did his family not know about that, question it, ensure his comfort, while he was alive? Where were they? Absent, but waiting on the inheritance?

(Scathing, judgemental comment I know, and I admit to not knowing all the facts, so feel free to enlighten me)
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:22
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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Re the original story: There is no reason for family to have known how the man was investing his money, but if he was living in poverty, why did his family not know about that, question it, ensure his comfort, while he was alive? Where were they? Absent, but waiting on the inheritance?
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Fraudster lived "life of Riley"
[Pensioner] could not afford to heat his home in the months before he died and often sat in his car to keep warm.
So possible that the poverty was only evident in the last months. (He also may not have wanted to ask for money.)
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:27
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

What you tend to find is that the older generation i.e. +70 are a lot more trusting than the younger generation and how the younger generation will be in the future. In their day this type of thing very rarely happened and most people who offered you something were not criminals and not out to steal your money.
Sadly the scum are a lot smarter than they used to be and know exactly how to get to that trusting generation.

It is a sad world we live in these days.
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:36
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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What you tend to find is that the older generation i.e. +70 are a lot more trusting than the younger generation and how the younger generation will be in the future. In their day this type of thing very rarely happened and most people who offered you something were not criminals and not out to steal your money.
Sadly the scum are a lot smarter than they used to be and know exactly how to get to that trusting generation.

It is a sad world we live in these days.
I'll mention that to my 70+ parents
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:47
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

come off it people, there is only 1 reason people 'fall' for these scams, greed

scammer - I'll take your 10k and make it 20k in 2 weeks
greedy person (rubbing hands) - here you go

they don't want to do due diligence they just want the return, and frankly I'm sick of seeing these people on tv with there sob stories
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:55
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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come off it people, there is only 1 reason people 'fall' for these scams, greed

scammer - I'll take your 10k and make it 20k in 2 weeks
greedy person (rubbing hands) - here you go

they don't want to do due diligence they just want the return, and frankly I'm sick of seeing these people on tv with there sob stories
Why would an 83 year old be greedy?
Maybe that 83 year old saw the chance to make some money for his children, grandchildren etc etc.
That's not greed that's strong family values, looking after your family and some scum bag has taken advantage of that.
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:57
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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Why would an 83 year old be greedy?
Maybe that 83 year old saw the chance to make some money for their children, grandchildren etc etc.
That's not greed that's strong family values, looking after your family.

we'll have to agree to differ on the meaning of greed.
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Old 13.04.2012, 15:00
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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we'll have to agree to differ on the meaning of greed.
I am sure the line of 'You can provide for your family long after you have gone' would have been thrown in there.
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Old 13.04.2012, 15:13
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

Lifting the lid on boiler room scams - A former conman has revealed the tricks of his trade
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For the first few months, I did not see anything wrong - I thought we were helping people earn money with strategies involving the dollar and the euro. Later, I realised that we asked people how much they could afford to invest to ensure we sucked them dry rather than to protect their savings.
How to spot a financial scam
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...if you think you could never be fooled, the FSA points out that the typical victim of these “boiler rooms” is not usually some gullible old lady, but in fact a middle-aged man with more than a little financial experience behind him ...

Often the investments offered are entirely non-existent; other boiler rooms sell real but illiquid investments...any purchaser who subsequently tries to sell will struggle and losses can easily reach 70% of the initial investment...

Don’t be conned: Firstly, no reputable financial services company would cold call you out of the blue ... don’t try to talk to them, just hang up.
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Old 13.04.2012, 15:19
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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I only invest through banks, e.g. CS, so I don't particularly feel I need to do due diligence.
Oh, I missed this gem before
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  #35  
Old 13.04.2012, 15:25
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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Don’t be conned: Firstly, no reputable financial services company would cold call you out of the blue ... don’t try to talk to them, just hang up.
That's the point I've been trying to make.

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Oh, I missed this gem before
Laugh as much as you like. You may think that CS/UBS etc. etc. are all crap at what they do and bent as a telephone cable, but the truth is, you know what I am saying is correct from a "legitimate" business vs. a con-man perspective.
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Old 13.04.2012, 15:36
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

Youngsters get caught with the "scams" that are those "pay day loans" - and have had to talk older members of my family from getting a loan from a company that they saw on TV - they thought it would be better than going to their bank Amazes me really but it does happen - though these cases are "legitimate" - if you can call those exchange rates that....
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Old 13.04.2012, 17:24
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

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"legitimate" con-men vs. a con-man perspective.
Corrected for you
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  #38  
Old 13.04.2012, 17:59
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Re: Man left in poverty after losing £800k to fraudsters

Those of you who have dealt with eldercare issues know how easily this could happen.

Con men who prey on the elderly abound. Just last weekend I read an article in the ILs local paper about a fraud ring that had just been busted - apparently the receptionist at a medical center was caught selling a 'target list' containing the contact details for geriatric patients, particularily those seeing the doctor for cognitive difficulties, to the criminals.

MIL, for example, has trouble distinguishing what is real mail versus junk mail. If it looks vaguely official, she feels honor-bound to answer it. She will pay 'bills' that turn out to be requests for donations to dodgy organizations, she will answer any survey often giving away sensitive information, invite any friendly sounding person into the house... she is just the kind of person who would be targeted.

She has moments of confusion, some degree of cognitive difficulty comes and goes - but she is not senile. She is not ready to relinquish control of her affairs - this is an understandably sensitive issue. So the family has to watch from the sidelines, gently guide and advise - but at this point we cannot legally intervene without going to court for a declaration of incompetence. And she isn't incompetent - yet.

Eldercare - especially when finances and competency questions arise - can be like walking on eggshells through a minefield.
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