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  #21  
Old 29.05.2012, 15:08
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

Spongers and layabouts!

Surely you can't mean the folks on top whack who can afford to pay devious accountants to use the carefully crafted tax loopholes and pay little or nothing!

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Personally I just don't want to pay for spongers and layabouts, especially when I know I'll receive no benefit whatsoever for paying tax when I'm out of the couuntry.
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  #22  
Old 29.05.2012, 15:10
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

You get the opportunity to help prop up 2 right wing regimes

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I think it's fair in saying that if you don't pay tax their you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Thing is if you pay tax in two countires are there any real benefits?
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  #23  
Old 29.05.2012, 15:21
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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I'm not sure about you, but if I ever found myself in trouble in a foreign land, my one and only phone call would be to the British embassy.
To say that we get nothing as British expats is really missing the point, I still care about what happens in Blighty as one day I can see myself moving back.
I'll be returning the beginning of next year, what I'm saying is where is the value for me in not being in the UK but still paying taxes there?
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  #24  
Old 29.05.2012, 15:23
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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Spongers and layabouts!

Surely you can't mean the folks on top whack who can afford to pay devious accountants to use the carefully crafted tax loopholes and pay little or nothing!
I applaud them in a way, basically if you pay tax in the UK it's used to prop up the what I call the Jeremy Kyle generation
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Old 29.05.2012, 15:26
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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I'm not sure about you, but if I ever found myself in trouble in a foreign land, my one and only phone call would be to the British embassy.
Except thats to do with citizenship and little to do with TAX an individual pays.
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  #26  
Old 29.05.2012, 15:55
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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I'm not sure about you, but if I ever found myself in trouble in a foreign land, my one and only phone call would be to the British embassy.
Really? I don't think that would ever occur to me, TBH. Well, I suppose if I was being chucked into jail in some far-flung 3rd-world hole I might call them, but even then I'd use our company-supplied international help line first.

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To say that we get nothing as British expats is really missing the point, I still care about what happens in Blighty as one day I can see myself moving back.
Which in a way defines you as an expat, and yes, I could see that in such cases there may be a small logic in maintaining a tax-paying status in your home country. As long as it's based on bi-lateral agreements in your country of residence so you don't end up paying taxes twice, of course.

But what about those of us who, while still wanting to visit, have no intention to ever return to live in our country of origin? I have no particular sense of belonging to any one country, aside from where I choose to live, and would deem it unjust in the extreme if I were made to pay tax in what I'd view as a 'foreign' country as well as the one(s) in which I live and work.
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Old 29.05.2012, 15:56
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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Kind of. You have to register yourself. For a while I was registered with my parents and they voted for me in the first general election after I left. After that we just let is slide and I'm no longer registered in the UK.
I think it's quite easy to register for postal voting in the area you last lived in though. Not that I've ever bothered.
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  #28  
Old 29.05.2012, 15:57
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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Except thats to do with citizenship and little to do with TAX an individual pays.
And where does the Foreign and Commonwealth Office derive the funds (~£1.6 billion/year) to run all its International missions?
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  #29  
Old 29.05.2012, 16:06
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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And where does the Foreign and Commonwealth Office derive the funds (~£1.6 billion/year) to run all its International missions?
the US?


.......
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  #30  
Old 29.05.2012, 16:18
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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And where does the Foreign and Commonwealth Office derive the funds (~£1.6 billion/year) to run all its International missions?
Please stop grasping at straws, you referred to assistance NOT funding (of course its funded by taxpayers - even foreign taxpayers who get little/no benefit).

Assistance from your foreign mission has got NOTHING to do with you as a TAXPAYER - you could have paid ZERO or 50 million in taxes, you could be aged 3 months or 120+ years. It has to do with CITIZENSHIP/Nationals - thats what decides on level of assistance.

Last edited by Lex; 29.05.2012 at 16:35.
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  #31  
Old 29.05.2012, 23:32
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

Pres.Hollande assumes that most of those French expats are at least well off and so voting conservative. He wants to serve the "lower income people" who most likely vote Socialist.

He of course knows that the expats, before they can drop their French nationality, have to get another nationality, and this can take many years.
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  #32  
Old 31.05.2012, 12:04
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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I'm not sure about you, but if I ever found myself in trouble in a foreign land, my one and only phone call would be to the British embassy.
To say that we get nothing as British expats is really missing the point, I still care about what happens in Blighty as one day I can see myself moving back.
Yes, I still feel many attachments to my country of birth, but it is getting less. To be honest I cannot really see myself every living permanently in the UK again. But I like the idea that I still have the option. And my offspring do have a UK passport (must check renewal dates).

I think if I'm still here in ten years' time I will probably apply for Swiss nationality (considered French naturalisation whilst living in France, but ultimately there was little point).

Finally, I do like the idea of "no taxation without representation", but that becomes difficult with migrant workers...
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  #33  
Old 31.05.2012, 12:27
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

So eventually the French tax office will want access to the banking records of French nationals at Swiss banks - and all the Americans here know how that one will play out

Probably best not to mention the French passport when opening an account, if you can help it.
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  #34  
Old 31.05.2012, 12:39
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

I've been expecting this to catch on for a while, as most things, good and bad, that originate in the US eventually permeate the Western world. I think it is very short-sighted and a bad move as it will ultimately lead to a further brain-drain of some of the most successful people in society but short-term demands on finances are very tight indeed throughout the Western world and the political system continues to reward desperately short-term opportunistic policy decisions.

It doesn't matter who starts it over here - if it is France then I'd not be at all surprised to see Germany, the UK, follow suit, and why not the Spanish, Italians, Portuguese etc. They might even introduce it as a pan-EU patriot tax or some such nonsense.

This offers a wonderful opportunity for e.g. up-and-coming African, South American and Asian nations to attract brainpower by offering instant nationality (and passports) to those who choose to relocate there and renounce citizenship.
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  #35  
Old 31.05.2012, 12:44
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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Ah...I see now, tax the French who are living abroad. I was thinking you meant tax the expats living in France. Coffee makes everything clearer
I probably need some coffee. Expatriates in France pay French taxes. Expatriates in Switzerland (as most people on this board know) pay Swiss taxes. Expatriates in the U.S. pay American taxes. I can't think of a single country where foreigners who live and work there do NOT pay taxes.
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  #36  
Old 31.05.2012, 13:02
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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Don't you lose the right to vote in UK elections after being resident abroad for a number of years? (10, 15?). That's me lasting impression from reading up about it 10 years or so ago.
It's 15 years.

It makes no difference if I vote in a UK General Election as my constituency is a Tory safe-seat. Expat voting isn't usually of significance to the outcome of UK elections. If the UK adopt a worldwide taxation policy on all earnings of British Citizens, I will quite happily surrender my British passport.

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I probably need some coffee. Expatriates in France pay French taxes. Expatriates in Switzerland (as most people on this board know) pay Swiss taxes. Expatriates in the U.S. pay American taxes. I can't think of a single country where foreigners who live and work there do NOT pay taxes.
British/French etc. expats in Switzerland only pay Swiss tax on Swiss earnings. US expats in Switzerland pay Swiss tax and US tax on Swiss earnings. Clear now?
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  #37  
Old 31.05.2012, 13:24
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

Careful about using 'expat' in these sort of discussions. I know some "real" expats; real in the sense that they are on an expat contract meaning:

- they still pay into their home country social security system (health, retirement etc)
- there are special tax rules (not sure about the finer points, but my understanding is that they do not submit tax declarations in CH)
- the contract is time-limited (as there are many advantages to having an expat contract); i.e. they know that they're here for 3-5 years max than have to change country (or go onto a 'local' contract and become B or C permits like most of us here).
- they generally have benefits like school fees being paid etc

So what are we? Migrant workers for those who do not know if they stay here is permanent; immigrants for those with the red and white CH booklet or those who have decided they're here for the long term.
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  #38  
Old 31.05.2012, 16:01
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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I probably need some coffee. Expatriates in France pay French taxes. Expatriates in Switzerland (as most people on this board know) pay Swiss taxes. Expatriates in the U.S. pay American taxes. I can't think of a single country where foreigners who live and work there do NOT pay taxes.
The point is being discussed is having French citizens say living in Switzerland pay Swiss taxes and possibly pay French taxes as well in addition. Depends on the rules they make etc.

But basically as the US system works you pay Swiss taxes and then you have to file a US tax return and so you dont receive the benefit (fully) of living in a low tax domicile.

Think its original intention was to stop americans saying they live in the Cayman Islands and paying no tax.

There are no details on the French proposal but that would be the potential implications.
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  #39  
Old 31.05.2012, 16:13
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

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Careful about using 'expat' in these sort of discussions. I know some "real" expats; real in the sense that they are on an expat contract
That's not a "real" expat, that is a narrow and recent usage of the word!

"In its broadest sense, an expatriate is any person living in a different country from where he or she is a citizen." (here)

Which is the sense used in this thread.

Tom
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  #40  
Old 31.05.2012, 16:19
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Re: France will tax its expats - US style

French OH voted for Hollande on the basis that the ex pat taxation issue would not affect us due to the large tax breaks for families/children in France ... hoping he's right as I don't want to have the conversation with him regarding relinquishing his French citizenship (although he luckily has another nationality so no worry about going stateless ..)
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