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  #41  
Old 20.06.2012, 16:14
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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This is about an extradition to Sweden, is there any hard evidence that he will then go on to the US?

In the interest of justice you have to separate the wikileaks stuff from the sexual assault stuff. This is about going to Sweden to answer questions, not going to the US to face a different trial.
Jesus, Seriously?
Once again: go and use google for an hour or so, please.
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  #42  
Old 20.06.2012, 16:16
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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If he was sent to either Sweden by the UK or to the US by Sweden should his own government not intervene - or has he simply pissed them off, relinquished Australian nationality?
Seems that he's being treated like any other Australian (and doesn't like it).
Quote:
... Attorney-General Nicola Roxon....wrote: ''Australia would not expect to be a party to any extradition discussions that may take place between the United States and the United Kingdom or the United States and Sweden, as extradition is a matter of bilateral law enforcement cooperation.''
Assange felt 'abandoned' by Australian government after letter from Roxon
Quote:
Prime Minister Julia Gillard said Tuesday that Australia will continue to offer consular assistance to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, after he sought asylum in Ecuador to avoid extradition.

"Australia will continue to support Mr. Assange just as we do support any Australian overseas who faces legal difficulties or dilemmas," ...
PM pledges consular assistance
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  #43  
Old 20.06.2012, 16:26
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

re. the justice system do it job...

well this case has already gone much beyond the issue at hand of charges of rape, etc... definitely in the political sphere

if anything, the US has only lost all credibility on the world stage as concerns justice and fairness in recent years thanks to Iraq war, Guantanomo, waterboarding, war on terror, etc...

thus, there is no possibility for a fair trial or fair justice in this matter as it is clear the US is involved and will not let this one get away

while some may think Assange as a coward, I honestly don't know what else he could do given the circumstances.
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  #44  
Old 20.06.2012, 17:15
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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If he was sent to either Sweden by the UK or to the US by Sweden should his own government not intervene - or has he simply pissed them off, relinquished Australian nationality?
Australia decided that he's not worth the trouble...

why piss off Uncle Sam to protect a guy who might well out your secrets next?
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  #45  
Old 21.06.2012, 08:18
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Has nobody actually looked up the details of this "sexual assault"

In Sweden, things that count as rape include: not using a condom.

This is what he was charged with. The first case was that the condom broke, the second that the second time they had sex, he didn't use one.

They also originally reported it, only for medical reasons - they wanted him to get tested but couldn't find him. In fact, it's really not clear that they wanted to press charges initially at all.


So, please take it in perspective. Rape, real rape is clearly a terrible thing. This... is questionable usage of the term at best.

Wikipedia
The issue here, goes beyond the definition in my opinion. Once he is there, then the US will want him and they will gladly turn him over. So... not wearing protective gear may be a crime to some, but you are absolutely right, to the masses of the world, this is not rape and should not be used in the same sentence.
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  #46  
Old 21.06.2012, 08:22
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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This is about an extradition to Sweden, is there any hard evidence that he will then go on to the US? The UK also sends people to the US to face trial, so why doesn't the US just ask the UK - or did they?

In the interest of justice you have to separate the wikileaks stuff from the sexual assault stuff. This is about going to Sweden to answer questions, not going to the US to face a different trial.
as you may have heard it already.... google.com will really shed some light. I appreciate your opinion, but the severity of this issue is far greater than what the trip to Sweden will provide
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  #47  
Old 21.06.2012, 08:23
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Australia decided that he's not worth the trouble...

why piss off Uncle Sam to protect a guy who might well out your secrets next?
this will actually prove to be a big problem. Don't think for a second Hillary C. isn't calling in all the chips and telling them to push him away or else.
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  #48  
Old 21.06.2012, 08:58
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Apologies if I am being silly and missing something here, but why can the Swedish authorities simply not question Assange in the UK, or is this simply a moot point now because of the High Court ruling?

That just seemed to be the obvious way out considering no charge had been raised in Sweden. Unless you subscribe to the internationl plot theory.
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  #49  
Old 21.06.2012, 10:24
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Swedish Prosecution Authority

Quote:
20 August 2010
The duty prosecutor orders the arrest of Julian Assange, suspected of rape and sexual molestation....

18 November 2010
Marianne Ny orders the arrest of Julian Assange, with probable cause, suspected of rape, three cases of sexual molestation and illegal coercion. This measure is taken as it has been impossible to interview him during the investigation.
Stockholm District Court takes a decision to order the arrest of Julian Assange in accordance with the Prosecutor's request.
In order to execute this decision, the Prosecutor takes a decision to issue an international warrant for the arrest of Julian Assange, a European Arrest Warrant.
...
30 November 2010
Julian Assange appeals the arrest warrant issued by Svea Court of Appeal to the Supreme Court.
2 December 2010
The Supreme Court takes a decision not to grant Julian Assange leave to appeal. The decision of the Svea Court of Appeal stands.
...
7 december 2010
Julian Assange is arrested by British police.
...
24 February 2011
The City of Westminster Magistrates’ Court makes a decision to grant the request for surrender of Mr. Julian Assange to Sweden.
....
Assange appeals, appeals, appeals...

14 June 2012
The Supreme Court dismisses the application to re-open the appeal. The Court also orders that the period for extradition shall not begin for 14 days.
Quote:
Swedish Prosecution Authority: the Assange matter

UK Supreme Court Decision of 14 June

The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom has dismissed the application from Mr Assange to re-open the appeal. In addition, the Court has ordered that the required period for extradition shall not commence until the 14th day after today.
In accordance with the framework on European arrest warrants, the Court's decision means that Mr Assange will be surrendered to Sweden within 10 days after the 14th day*.

The Director of Public Prosecution, Marianne Ny, cannot supply any information regarding the case at the moment, but will give interviews in connection with a detention hearing in Sweden.
* apparently by 8 July
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  #50  
Old 21.06.2012, 10:59
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Apologies if I am being silly and missing something here, but why can the Swedish authorities simply not question Assange in the UK, or is this simply a moot point now because of the High Court ruling?

That just seemed to be the obvious way out considering no charge had been raised in Sweden. Unless you subscribe to the internationl plot theory.
You could also ask why he should get special privileges; I think "come on down to the station for a chat" is not at all an uncommon requirement in police work.
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  #51  
Old 21.06.2012, 11:29
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

One could also ask oneself if Sweden issues european-wide arrest warrants for all swedish-definition-of-rape possible perpetrators...

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You could also ask why he should get special privileges; I think "come on down to the station for a chat" is not at all an uncommon requirement in police work.
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  #52  
Old 21.06.2012, 12:11
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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One could also ask oneself if Sweden issues european-wide arrest warrants for all swedish-definition-of-rape possible perpetrators...
Breaking News!

All Swedish fathers arrested based on the Assange precedent. Full story to follow.
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  #53  
Old 21.06.2012, 12:11
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Apologies if I am being silly and missing something here, but why can the Swedish authorities simply not question Assange in the UK, or is this simply a moot point now because of the High Court ruling?

That just seemed to be the obvious way out considering no charge had been raised in Sweden. Unless you subscribe to the internationl plot theory.
Well exactly.
Although it's worth noting that certain legal jurisdictions probably come into play & also Sweden has a guilty until proven innocent policy on these type of allegations.

And for those of you still naive enough too think that the Swedes are jolly good sorts who will play fair, it's worth remembering that they have been happily complicit in US extraordinary renditions & that Fredrik Reinfeldt (PM) is apparently a very good buddy of one Karl Rove.
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  #54  
Old 21.06.2012, 12:54
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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One could also ask oneself if Sweden issues european-wide arrest warrants for all swedish-definition-of-rape possible perpetrators...
I think that's precisely the point.
1) how many international arrest warrants for similar cases does Sweden issue?
2) how can Sweden bypass European legislation concerning the IAW?
"An EAW can only be issued for the purposes of conducting a criminal prosecution (not merely an investigation), or enforcing a custodial sentence.[1] It can only be issued for offences carrying a maximum penalty of 12 months or more. Where sentence has already been passed an EAW can only be issued if the prison term to be enforced is at least four months long."

No Evidence has been put forward and the Swedish investigators (!) have sufficient counter-evidence to suggest the allegations are fabricated, including public (Facebook) postings of the two rape "victims" after the party where they boasted of sleeping with Assange, and which they have since unsuccessfully tried to delete.

Both points are extremely questionable in my opinion, and people who suggest that Assange is merely treated like everyone else, and that he should face trial like everyone else should first explain 1) & 2)... I would be surprised if they can.
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  #55  
Old 21.06.2012, 13:15
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Freedom fighters who went to jail with their comrades for democracy and freedom of expression (Ghandi, Mandela, Havel, Solzhenitsyn, etc, etc, etc)
versus
Julian "I was the fall guy" Assange

Quote:
'I was the fall guy': Julian Assange in his own words

And for the organization to survive, there had to be a fall guy, and the fall guy needed to be protected. So the fall guy was me.

I was the most visible person already, so I was going to be the person that the political fire came in on. And because of that, I needed to be even more publicly visible, so that if I was locked up, if I suddenly disappeared, people would miss me.
Except that he doesn't want to be the fall guy or even risk trial or jailtime, preferring instead to cosy up with undemocratic states (i.e. Ecuador, Russia [Democracy index: Sweden 4, USA 19, Ecuador 89, Russia 117]) and let others (e.g. Bradley Manning) take the rap.
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  #56  
Old 21.06.2012, 14:27
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

So, could we sum up by saying that he (JA) is a deeply suspicious character but something about this case stinks to high heaven?

I am always looking for the one line summary.
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  #57  
Old 21.06.2012, 14:52
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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So, could we sum up by saying that he (JA) is a deeply suspicious character but something about this case stinks to high heaven?
Not sure if 'suspicious' is entirely the correct term. Manipulative maybe & he certainly comes across as a pretty unlikeable & aloof personality.

But then lots of freedom fighters throughout history have been arseholes.
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  #58  
Old 21.06.2012, 15:30
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Rape and sexual assault is a persistent problem in Ecuador.

FCO Travel Advice

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...merica/ecuador


In Swedish:

Quote:
Their identities are known, they reside in a known place in Ireland, but the Swedish prosecutor’s office did NOT bother to issue an international arrest warrant. When asked why, their response was that international arrest warrants are usually only issued for very serious crimes such as murder.
A case of 2 Irish persons who violently assaulted a victim ( caught on video ) in Swedish territory but left the country.

In JA´s case, sex-by-surprise qualified for a warrant.
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Last edited by jrspet; 21.06.2012 at 20:56.
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  #59  
Old 15.08.2012, 01:09
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

"Ecuador will grant asylum to Julian Assange," an official in Ecuador's capital Quito told the newspaper.

The Guardian UK

However, it appears to be unconfirmed.
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  #60  
Old 16.08.2012, 07:00
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Britain on Wednesday warned Ecuador that it could raid its London embassy to get Assange.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87E16N20120815
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