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  #61  
Old 16.08.2012, 08:37
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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"Ecuador will grant asylum to Julian Assange," an official in Ecuador's capital Quito told the newspaper.

The Guardian UK

However, it appears to be unconfirmed.
I believe the announcement is today
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Old 16.08.2012, 08:40
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Britain on Wednesday warned Ecuador that it could raid its London embassy to get Assange.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87E16N20120815
This is the most absurd thing ever... what is the purpose of having an embassy if one is not protected behind it's walls? Is it only good in the movies....

Step one, hope today's announcement is approved
Step two, get him on protected soil
Step three, well, I have not thought that far ahead
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  #63  
Old 16.08.2012, 09:39
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Just for the people who cannot read properly.

Leaking information and exposing the truth = good.
Raping women (allegedly) = bad.
Running to Ecuador (excellent human rights record btw) = cowardly.
Just in case I have missed something: I believe he has not even allegedly raped a woman - he had consensual, unprotected sex and the woman later on changed her mind that she did not really wanted it. What sounds bizarre to most people is some minor offense in Sweden. The sort that does not start international man hunts but some questioning by the police and that's it.

Given the Swedish track record of cooperation with the US even in cases which clearly affected their neutrality as well as human rights - one cannot ignore that he his pretty clearly getting set-up here. Plenty of rumours if the lady involved is an agent provocateur or simply weird.

I think people should stand up for their actions, but that is missing the point here by a mile: The US claims jurisdiction for whatever they want - because they can. Assange is not American, has not done anything on American soil and if should be trialed for whatever he did whereever he did it. Trying to move people around to the place they can get the sentence a government thinks they deserve is highly undemocratic. Before the 80s did the US at least on paper follow international rights (the pig bay reality was very different...), after Reagan did they directly and officially unilaterally claim the right to catch any criminal who has killed an American anywhere in the world and bring him to the US to trial... and since G.W. Bush is it ok to pick up whoever you want and bring him wherever you want especially if it is part of the "war on terror"...

A very sad development and btw an extremely dangerous example for the upcoming super powers... it is pretty hard to complain about human rights records or lack of democracy in China if the west does this sort of things themselves routinely.

That Obama did not change this was the single biggest disappointment for me. He does not deserve the Nobel peace prize he got.
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Old 16.08.2012, 09:59
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Just in case I have missed something: I believe he has not even allegedly raped a woman - he had consensual, unprotected sex and the woman later on changed her mind that she did not really wanted it. What sounds bizarre to most people is some minor offense in Sweden. The sort that does not start international man hunts but some questioning by the police and that's it.

Given the Swedish track record of cooperation with the US even in cases which clearly affected their neutrality as well as human rights - one cannot ignore that he his pretty clearly getting set-up here. Plenty of rumours if the lady involved is an agent provocateur or simply weird.

I think people should stand up for their actions, but that is missing the point here by a mile: The US claims jurisdiction for whatever they want - because they can. Assange is not American, has not done anything on American soil and if should be trialed for whatever he did whereever he did it. Trying to move people around to the place they can get the sentence a government thinks they deserve is highly undemocratic. Before the 80s did the US at least on paper follow international rights (the pig bay reality was very different...), after Reagan did they directly and officially unilaterally claim the right to catch any criminal who has killed an American anywhere in the world and bring him to the US to trial... and since G.W. Bush is it ok to pick up whoever you want and bring him wherever you want especially if it is part of the "war on terror"...

A very sad development and btw an extremely dangerous example for the upcoming super powers... it is pretty hard to complain about human rights records or lack of democracy in China if the west does this sort of things themselves routinely.

That Obama did not change this was the single biggest disappointment for me. He does not deserve the Nobel peace prize he got.
I'm happy to jump on the anti-American-government bandwagon... after the alleged extradition to the US actually happens. At the moment, Assange's defenders are keen to accuse the US of flaunting their power, but Sweden is the only government to make any requests. There's a lot of hints of shadowy power plays, but not one single bit of proof.

My guess is rather that Assange, being a well-known asshole, pissed off the prosecutor in the case, who is now using his power to make Assange's life difficult. The fact that everyone is blaming the US has probably got him rolling in laughter.
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  #65  
Old 16.08.2012, 10:09
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

I think Britain is in danger of missing a grand opportunity here (or perhaps they’re not, see 2).

If he’s spirited out of the embassy in the diplomatic bag:

1. The Ecuadorians can big it up with their friends (eg Venezuela, Cuba etc.)
2. The Brits can be indignant and aggrieved while having the whole extradition issue taken out of their hands.
3. Assange will effectively now be in exile in a distant country and can be quietly forgotten about.

It’s a win for everyone .
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  #66  
Old 16.08.2012, 10:30
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

I haven't followed the whole bizarre story, but what I do find strange is that it appears that the British govt is contemplating creating a massive diplomatic incident by raiding an embassy in London for.... well what. Because a policeman in Sweden wants to talk to a man about a possible alleged rape. Yeah, right.

The alleged rape is clearly not what they want him for.
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  #67  
Old 16.08.2012, 10:43
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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I believe the announcement is today
Seems like today at 14:00 they will announce.
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  #68  
Old 16.08.2012, 10:43
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18519380

It looks like Assange has finally revealed his hand as the coward as he is by seeking asylum in the Ecuadorean embassy, and probably costing his friends the money they put up for his bail.

Whether he has done anything wrong or not is not the point, he should man up and face it head on and defend himself if he claims to be innocent. I don't consider Sweden to be a puppet of the US or a particularly sinister place to have a trial.
You really believe he would have a FAIR trial??? You are quite naive...
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  #69  
Old 16.08.2012, 11:17
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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I'm happy to jump on the anti-American-government bandwagon... after the alleged extradition to the US actually happens. At the moment, Assange's defenders are keen to accuse the US of flaunting their power, but Sweden is the only government to make any requests. There's a lot of hints of shadowy power plays, but not one single bit of proof.

My guess is rather that Assange, being a well-known asshole, pissed off the prosecutor in the case, who is now using his power to make Assange's life difficult. The fact that everyone is blaming the US has probably got him rolling in laughter.
I could not agree more that Assange comes accross as a guy with a lot of issues to say the least... but honestly: Some lowly Swedish prosecutor could not possibly make Assanges life in the UK this sort of a mess - I simply do not believe that the UK would take any other case of the same quality anywhere nearly as serious that they'd risk to storm an embassy.

It is a pretty obvious strategy - for the last year was one of the most notorious political activists kept busy with trying to avoid getting handed over to the US. In other words - he did not have the time to do what he is best at and did not manage to harm the various governments he has pissed off with more spectacular proofs that they are lying to us.

The reason why I do not believe the lonely prosecutor idea is that the same is happening time and again involving various governments and various activists - it is simple to keep somebody busy who has limited resources when you as a government have basically unlimited legal resources at hand. Large companies like to do the same with smaller competitors.

Simple example: The founder of "sea shepherd", Paul Watson, and equally questionable character as Assange has been locked up in Germany based on a warrant from Costa Rica - while it was similarily obvious that he would in the end been handed over to Japan where he would face a ton of criminal charges as a terrorist fighting against the completely legal Japanese whaling fleet...
http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-...d-germany-1410
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  #70  
Old 16.08.2012, 11:57
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

You don't need to wear a tin-foil hat to see political pressure from the US in the scale of how the case is being handled compared to the nature of the crime. I would like to know how many requests for crimes of comparable gravity get the same pull and resources behind their extradition requests. He pissed the US off and is being made an example of, it doesn't get any more transparent than this.

It's not cowardly for Assange to run when the deck is so clearly stacked against him.
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  #71  
Old 16.08.2012, 14:13
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Latest BBC update:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19259623

I am not sure how many of you remember the killing of WPC Ivan Fletcher (British Police woman) by a gunman from inside the Libyan Embassy in London about 30 years ago or so. The gunman, an embassy staff, was shooting at the Libyan protestors outside the embassy in the heart of London.

It was crystal clear that the killer of the officer was inside the embassy, but no storming or even threat of storming the embassy was issued by the UK government. The killer and the rest of the diplomatic staff walked away under police protection to the airport after relations with Libya were severed! Sounds like Assange's crime is not rape or even anything close, it is way ahead of killing a UK officer in day light!!
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Old 16.08.2012, 14:42
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Asylum is granted

Ecuador is to grant political asylum to Julian Assange, says Patino.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...sy-asylum-live
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:03
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Asylum is granted

Ecuador is to grant political asylum to Julian Assange, says Patino.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...sy-asylum-live
That was expected, no? If I was a president of a Latin American country had I no interest in Assange at all... till the moment the UK unleashed their direct threat to storm my consulate. I guess every single politician dreams of situation like these. They cannot lose:

1. You shout "bring it on" which makes you more popular with the thicker part of the population.

2 a. Assange arrives, you throw a party and can claim to have shown it to the imperialist pigs.

2 b. The UK really either storms the embassy or arrests Assange while he is in a diplomatic convoy. You'll have a field day throwing out the British embassador in return, revoke some visas or something and make a speech on TV how you do not accept it - your popularity goes up again.
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Old 16.08.2012, 15:43
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Latest BBC update:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19259623

I am not sure how many of you remember the killing of WPC Ivan Fletcher (British Police woman) by a gunman from inside the Libyan Embassy in London about 30 years ago or so. The gunman, an embassy staff, was shooting at the Libyan protestors outside the embassy in the heart of London.

It was crystal clear that the killer of the officer was inside the embassy, but no storming or even threat of storming the embassy was issued by the UK government. The killer and the rest of the diplomatic staff walked away under police protection to the airport after relations with Libya were severed! Sounds like Assange's crime is not rape or even anything close, it is way ahead of killing a UK officer in day light!!
It was after this incident that the government changed the law allowing the temporary revocation of an embassy as foreign sovereign territory - just so they can go in and get someone.

Assange doesn't have (and can't get) diplomatic immunity. It's only where he is that stops him being arrested. To get him out they'll have to put him in the diplomatic bag.

Err... I don't think the WPC was Russian, her name was Yvonne!
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Old 16.08.2012, 16:06
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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You don't need to wear a tin-foil hat to see political pressure from the US in the scale of how the case is being handled compared to the nature of the crime. I would like to know how many requests for crimes of comparable gravity get the same pull and resources behind their extradition requests. He pissed the US off and is being made an example of, it doesn't get any more transparent than this.

It's not cowardly for Assange to run when the deck is so clearly stacked against him.
Yep, it is a classic example of creating a pretext rather than the real reason. A bit like WMD was used a pretext for invading Iraq rather than the real reason.
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  #76  
Old 16.08.2012, 16:38
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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Assange doesn't have (and can't get) diplomatic immunity. It's only where he is that stops him being arrested. To get him out they'll have to put him in the diplomatic bag.
err yes he does http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492 Ecuador is obviously able to see through the bunch of lies from the UK and US governments knowing why they want to send him to Sweden.

Admitted he still doesnt have a free passage in the UK but he does have diplomatic immunity with Ecuador as they agree the likelihood of his human rights being violated is high
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Old 16.08.2012, 16:56
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

either way he is still a prisoner, be it in a plush embassy, a swedish prison or some hell hole american camp.

He has made his point, everyone is aware the swedish could hand him to the USA - would they dare now??

He may as well call a huge press conference, stroll out of the embassy and get on a plane back to sweden.

And maybe he'll learn that an easy shag always has strings attached.
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Old 16.08.2012, 17:13
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

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err yes he does http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492 Ecuador is obviously able to see through the bunch of lies from the UK and US governments knowing why they want to send him to Sweden.

Admitted he still doesnt have a free passage in the UK but he does have diplomatic immunity with Ecuador as they agree the likelihood of his human rights being violated is high
Err, no he doesn't and nor does it say so in that article. In the side bar it says
"He would very likely be arrested if he stepped outside the Ecuadorean Embassy, where he is - for the moment at least - still protected by the diplomatic immunity granted to foreign government buildings on UK soil."

As I said "It's only where he is that stops him being arrested."

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue, I can't understand the British government's attitude to all this. As I said earlier, if they let him go, they can act all aggrieved and the wronged party, but at least no-one can accuse them of not trying. At the moment he is a cause celebre which could really embarrass them in the event that he does get extradited from Sweden to America. (Why it is easier to extradite him from Sweden, I've never fully understood.) So reluctantly letting him go to Ecuador seems a good way out.
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  #79  
Old 16.08.2012, 17:21
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

Is it just me or does Assange look like someone who was still being breast fed well into his twenties?
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Old 16.08.2012, 17:57
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Re: Assange should man up and not run

[QUOTE I am not sure how many of you remember the killing of WPC Ivan Fletcher (British Police woman) by a gunman from inside the Libyan Embassy in London about 30 years ago or so. [/QUOTE]

A few years ago I was at that spot in London, there were flower laid there in memory of WPC Ivan Fletcher.

on subject of Libya - Lockerbie Bombing- Megrahi convicted of murder, was released from prison on compassionate grounds on 20 August 2009.

Sweden - everyone should know now from Assange case - Condoms
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