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  #21  
Old 01.07.2012, 01:44
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld




Just joking!! The secret of cost effective health care is to limit malpractice claims which
is obviously not easy.
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  #22  
Old 01.07.2012, 02:32
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Perhaps if they had bought health insurance ahead of the cancer, it would
not cause such financial problems.

My friend has a small business with 60 employees. She offers them
insurance for $100 bucks a month. Many of the people don't take it
though they are earning 70-80K per year. It amazes me.

Obamacare was passed very quickly without much research into
the finer points and financing of the deal. Some studies have
shown that it will add 1.3 trillion in debt over 10 years which
the US cannot afford.

It would be great to reduce military spending, but that is another
thread.
Not everyone can afford to think ahead and buy insurance on the basis that one day they might need it. People live, far too frequently, paycheck to paycheck and simply cannot afford insurance. For many, the choice is insurance or food for their kids. Or a roof over their heads.

Most places do not offer anything as cheap as $100/month. I have not worked in America for 10 years come November, and when I left - working for a huge bank - I was paying $300/month for basic HMO coverage. Copays at the doctor, copays for medicines and bigger (much) for hospital stays. Thankfully I never did find out that hospital stays costs...

I broke my foot a year or so before I moved. I wasn't sure it was broken the night it happened, and did not go to the emergency room because I didn't want to pay for it. I went the next day to my doctor after it was apparent that it was broken. It still cost a lot, but nowhere near as much as the hospital.

Things are much worse now with insurance.

Until Obamacare, people were routinely dropped when they became ill, refused insurance due to pre-existing conditions, etc.

I have a friend who teaches English at two universities. Why two? Because full time positions are impossible to come by these days. She does not get insurance from her job. She has had to rely on the free clinic, where appointments would take a few months to book, or savings, which were limited because...well, she's working two part time jobs. Now she can at least be assured that she can have medical coverage.

I do, however, agree with your statement about malpractice.
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  #23  
Old 01.07.2012, 06:43
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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If I'm not mistaken, like in CH, the federal income tax is the smallest %, no? I don't remember exactly.
You ARE mistaken.

In the US, federal taxes are by FAR the biggest chunk, 10x larger than the rest combined!

Tom
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  #24  
Old 01.07.2012, 08:07
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Perhaps if they had bought health insurance ahead of the cancer, it would
not cause such financial problems.

My friend has a small business with 60 employees. She offers them
insurance for $100 bucks a month. Many of the people don't take it
though they are earning 70-80K per year. It amazes me.


Obamacare was passed very quickly without much research into
the finer points and financing of the deal. Some studies have
shown that it will add 1.3 trillion in debt over 10 years which
the US cannot afford.

It would be great to reduce military spending, but that is another
thread.
It is because of people like these that Americans will be "forced" to get insurance. That has no bearing on what you said first though - no one can know when they're going to become very ill AND as others have said since, there are many unfortunate occasions when insurances drop people just when they get ill because they don't want to pay.




Meanwhile, there is also a huge problem with people being forced into taking part time positions so that employers don't have to provide benefits. Even staying within the same corporation, when I moved from Illinois to Florida, I was forced to go from full-time to part-time because there weren't any full-time positions open.. but when I got there, many weeks I worked full-time hours, with the manager keeping close track that over a given period, my average was just low enough to keep me under that full-time line. Well... or so she thought, but that's another story. The point is, that this is a trick that MANY many many employers pull these days.

My experience tells me that your friend offering insurance to her employees is the exception, not the rule.



My friends are driving me batty with this issue also. Some because they don't feel that having health coverage is a "right", some because they are deeply Catholic and have issues with the fact that "Obamacare" means that insurances will be forced to include medical procedures including sterilization and abortion.

Many of the people I know going on about how people don't have a "right" to health coverage, have never been without. I have serious concerns about the belief system of some people - do they not believe that people should go to the doctor when they're sick? That the rest of us don't have a right to live amongst people who have their communicable illnesses seen to properly?

The Catholic friends are tougher, because although this is within my belief system to some extent also (I do not think that insurance should cover abortion unless it is required to save the life of the mother), it tromps squarely on what I believe are the rights of non-Catholics. It is funny to see how I live my life vs what I believe are the rights of people in general. I am pro-choice for others, but am quite positive I'd never have an abortion myself, because I do believe it is killing. (I cried and had to leave class when we purposefully created sea urchin embryos and then day-by-day smooshed them under slides to study their development.)

I also believe that whatever method of birth control I choose, doesn't make it right for me to dictate what others use - this flies in the face of my very strong beliefs regarding women's rights. Women should have the right to decide when and how many children we have and if we fail to deliver (or take away) affordable access to birth control, this becomes very difficult indeed. Of course, the argument there is that abstinence is free - but it actually comes with it's own price if you're married (intimacy being one).



Anyhow, going back to the quote from HollidayG, I'm curious about this trillions of debt thing. I think it is a shifting of debt from the people to the government, rather than a "creation" of debt. As financially "painful" as it may be, I think it is a matter of "just desserts" since I believe that the government should have stepped in long ago (on some level) regarding the practice within companies of hiring with the purpose of avoiding benefits. IF the companies provided health care for ALL employees, IF insurances provided affordable access to coverage equally across the board (as opposed to special prices for groups - which, to be fair, can afford higher prices much better than individuals can!), then the situation wouldn't be what it is now.

This has been a long time in coming, and if we have to pay through taxes, I think it is only fair that we do, for failing to ensure that ALL people have fair chance at living good lives.
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  #25  
Old 01.07.2012, 10:49
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Not everyone can afford to think ahead and buy insurance on the basis that one day they might need it. People live, far too frequently, paycheck to paycheck and simply cannot afford insurance. For many, the choice is insurance or food for their kids. Or a roof over their heads.

Most places do not offer anything as cheap as $100/month. I have not worked in America for 10 years come November, and when I left - working for a huge bank - I was paying $300/month for basic HMO coverage. Copays at the doctor, copays for medicines and bigger (much) for hospital stays. Thankfully I never did find out that hospital stays costs...

I broke my foot a year or so before I moved. I wasn't sure it was broken the night it happened, and did not go to the emergency room because I didn't want to pay for it. I went the next day to my doctor after it was apparent that it was broken. It still cost a lot, but nowhere near as much as the hospital.

Things are much worse now with insurance.

Until Obamacare, people were routinely dropped when they became ill, refused insurance due to pre-existing conditions, etc.

I have a friend who teaches English at two universities. Why two? Because full time positions are impossible to come by these days. She does not get insurance from her job. She has had to rely on the free clinic, where appointments would take a few months to book, or savings, which were limited because...well, she's working two part time jobs. Now she can at least be assured that she can have medical coverage.

I do, however, agree with your statement about malpractice.
There are many people working at say KFC, McDonald's, etc. They
probably cannot afford healthcare, but I also know many that preferred
to drive the Toyota 4Runner or a BMW rather than buy health insurance.

I guess that I was the fool that paid 300 bucks or so a month for
good health insurance. There are other policies with large deductibles
that you can buy for far less than $300 per month.

The whole Obamacare idea is a good idea; however, the Democrats
wanted to pass it very quickly while they still had a majority. The
long-term financing of the bill is still very nebulous.
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  #26  
Old 01.07.2012, 11:44
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There are many people working at say KFC, McDonald's, etc. They
probably cannot afford healthcare, but I also know many that preferred
to drive the Toyota 4Runner or a BMW rather than buy health insurance.

I guess that I was the fool that paid 300 bucks or so a month for
good health insurance. There are other policies with large deductibles
that you can buy for far less than $300 per month.

The whole Obamacare idea is a good idea; however, the Democrats
wanted to pass it very quickly while they still had a majority. The
long-term financing of the bill is still very nebulous.

I'm sure there are free riders at every income level.

Lots of people can't get a $300 policy if they have pre-existing conditions. The only recourse is often a big employer because there's a large enough risk group and you can't be denied

The ACA is certainly flawed, too many pharma deals, doesn't address lobbies and insurer power enough, and there are a lot of details to be ironed out with respect to medical education. (the gov't reimburses hospitals for training). But it's a start and I hope they can move forward.
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  #27  
Old 01.07.2012, 14:41
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

What started out with good intentions turned into a train wreck. My biggest disappointments with the ACA are the lack of a public option, no caps on drug prices and insurance premiums, thanks to Obama caving in to the wishes of lobbyists like Billy Tauzin, et al. -- and this after he PROMISED lobbyists would be banned.

And how is this going to affect us (e.g., US expats abroad)? Will we be slapped with yet another "tax" because we haven't purchased health care in the US, even though we don't live there?

And I am also vehemently opposed to ANY measure that would give the IRS another iota of power, especially vis-à-vis health care. The IRS is a dysfunctional train wreck of stupidity, incompetence and unprofessionalism. It is NOTORIOUS for making mistakes. If it truly dealt with people sensibly, logically and fairly, no problem. But it is a brainless behemoth that treats everybody as if they're guilty until proven innocent and harshly penalizes people, even for innocent mistakes. Why not let an agency like Health and Human Services administer "health care"?

Insurance coverage should be decoupled from employment, full stop. Hence the need for a public option for those who can't afford to buy their own private policy. There would be no need for this so-called "mandate." If the govt. can fund wars and tax cuts for the über wealthy, they can fund a public health care option.
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Last edited by latigresse; 01.07.2012 at 14:56.
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