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Old 28.06.2012, 18:04
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US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

Yep, the Supremes just voted 5-4 to uphold the ACA, so most US citizens will be required to purchase health insurance.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...usblog/259097/

By Derek Thompson

Jun 28 2012, 10:37 AM ET

"In Plain English: The Affordable Care Act, including its individual mandate that virtually all Americans buy health insurance, is constitutional. There were not five votes to uphold it on the ground that Congress could use its power to regulate commerce between the states to require everyone to buy health insurance. However, five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power. That is all that matters. Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn't comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding."


Personally, I think it's a good thing.
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Old 28.06.2012, 19:20
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

Well the US government has plans to hire 30,000 people for this new health plan!!!!

They will hire an amazing 1,500 new doctors and nurses.

The rest of the jobs will be at the IRS, who will administer the ACA.

Yes, the US needs 28,500 new IRS workers to make sure people pay their taxs or they arent entitled to healthcare.

And thats what this is all about: US Taxs......
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Old 28.06.2012, 19:55
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Yep, the Supremes just voted 5-4 to uphold the ACA, so most US citizens will be required to purchase health insurance.
Just a quick correction. "Most" US citizens will not be required to purchase health insurance because most already have insurance.

I'll have to look it up again, but I think it's only sometime like 40 million people.
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Old 28.06.2012, 20:01
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Just a quick correction. "Most" US citizens will not be required to purchase health insurance because most already have insurance.

I'll have to look it up again, but I think it's only sometime like 40 million people.
You're right, of course.
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Old 28.06.2012, 20:04
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

Its a formal documentation process for tax purposes.

Only 50m people in the US pay taxs, out of 300m citizens. Something like 120m file taxs. The rest are off the US governments radar.

But if Healthcare is mandatory then they have to file with the IRS in order to get medical attention.

FYI, it will also bring in, as a minimum, an extra $380Billion a year into the IRS and US Treasury!!!!

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Just a quick correction. "Most" US citizens will not be required to purchase health insurance because most already have insurance.

I'll have to look it up again, but I think it's only sometime like 40 million people.
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Old 28.06.2012, 20:09
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

At the US governments current rate of laverage (Debt to Tax Revenues=6.6x) the US government will use that 380bn to borrow $2.5Trillion.... And thats what this is all about folks.

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FYI, it will also bring in, as a minimum, an extra $380Billion a year into the IRS and US Treasury!!!!
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Old 29.06.2012, 17:22
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

It was a good day in America
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Old 29.06.2012, 17:42
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

Zuger, I'm curious as to where your figures come from. Do Idaho bunkers really have enough capacity to keep 180M Americans off the radar?
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Old 29.06.2012, 17:56
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Well the US government has plans to hire 30,000 people for this new health plan!!!!

They will hire an amazing 1,500 new doctors and nurses.

The rest of the jobs will be at the IRS, who will administer the ACA.

Yes, the US needs 28,500 new IRS workers to make sure people pay their taxs or they arent entitled to healthcare.

And thats what this is all about: US Taxs......
The US needs more bureaucracy in the government to reduce debt
like it needs a hole in the head!!
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Old 29.06.2012, 17:59
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Its a formal documentation process for tax purposes.

Only 50m people in the US pay taxs, out of 300m citizens. Something like 120m file taxs. The rest are off the US governments radar.

But if Healthcare is mandatory then they have to file with the IRS in order to get medical attention.

FYI, it will also bring in, as a minimum, an extra $380Billion a year into the IRS and US Treasury!!!!
Only 50m people in the US pay tax? That's clearly not true. Maybe you want to clarify your statement.

And only those who don't have medical insurance will be effected by the healthcare bill, which as I said is about 15% of the population.
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Old 30.06.2012, 19:57
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Only 50m people in the US pay tax? That's clearly not true. Maybe you want to clarify your statement.

And only those who don't have medical insurance will be effected by the healthcare bill, which as I said is about 15% of the population.
That's not quite true. The ACA also has provisions for students (not sure if it extends to all children) to remain on their parents' insurance till age 26, it impacts Medicare part d, the out of pocket paid for prescription drugs (these are in effect now). it levels the cost of insurance between men and women, it will allow people to purchase insurance without regard to pre-existing conditions, and will allow people who don't have insurance provided by employers to purchase insurance as though they are in a large risk group and take advantage of group pricing (this is scheduled for 2013-2014). There is other stuff too, and still more to work out.

Were the ACA to be overturned, the things in place now would likely go away, and they'd have to renegotiate the other stuff.

In polls, people don't like "obamacare" but they're in favor of all its features. Amazing.

It's absolutely absurd that in the US people go bankrupt for health expenses. Something like 1/5 of everyone treated for cancer has serious financial problems as a result. In Switzerland, 6 months of chemo and 7 weeks of rads, drugs, etc cost me no more than chf 1500 (in addition to the cost of insurance). And I have nothing special, just basic insurance here. So, I think that if whoever can work out the issues, and US voters don't shoot themselves in the foot by listening to fox news, it could be a good thing for the US.
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Old 30.06.2012, 22:20
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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That's not quite true. ....
Sure. But most of those students and those with pre-existing conditions are counted as part of the uninsured.

My point is more that many of the people screaming against "Obamacare" are people who have insurance paid for by their employers and they can keep that insurance. And no one is going to force them to buy anything new.

It's easy for those who have employee paid insurance and haven't been kicked out due to pre-existing conditions to complain about something that isn't really going to change for them.

I'm happy with SCOTUS decision, even if I'm not at all affected*. And Romney can be quiet now. RomneyCare is alive and well in Massachusetts.




* (effected? I should really look that up....)
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Old 30.06.2012, 22:31
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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It's absolutely absurd that in the US people go bankrupt for health expenses. Something like 1/5 of everyone treated for cancer has serious financial problems as a result. In Switzerland, 6 months of chemo and 7 weeks of rads, drugs, etc cost me no more than chf 1500 (in addition to the cost of insurance).
Perhaps if they had bought health insurance ahead of the cancer, it would
not cause such financial problems.

My friend has a small business with 60 employees. She offers them
insurance for $100 bucks a month. Many of the people don't take it
though they are earning 70-80K per year. It amazes me.

Obamacare was passed very quickly without much research into
the finer points and financing of the deal. Some studies have
shown that it will add 1.3 trillion in debt over 10 years which
the US cannot afford.

It would be great to reduce military spending, but that is another
thread.
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Old 30.06.2012, 22:37
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Obamacare was passed very quickly without much research into
the finer points and financing of the deal. Some studies have
shown that it will add 1.3 trillion in debt over 10 years which
the US cannot afford.
Might you have a link for any of those studies, or a name of any that you recommend?
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Old 30.06.2012, 22:53
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Might you have a link for any of those studies, or a name of any that you recommend?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/201...e-the-deficit/
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Old 30.06.2012, 23:00
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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Perhaps if they had bought health insurance ahead of the cancer, it would
not cause such financial problems.

My friend has a small business with 60 employees. She offers them
insurance for $100 bucks a month. Many of the people don't take it
though they are earning 70-80K per year. It amazes me.

Obamacare was passed very quickly without much research into
the finer points and financing of the deal. Some studies have
shown that it will add 1.3 trillion in debt over 10 years which
the US cannot afford.

It would be great to reduce military spending, but that is another
thread.


The 1/5 are by and large people with insurance. Some of them had to quit, were laid off, or for whom insurance is not comprehensive. You can't always say "oh no, if only that person had bought insurance beforehand."


The way coverage is structured in the US with copays, and horrible prescription coverage, it's no wonder that some people just don't have the resources. So what's the solution? No treatment? Let 'em die? For example, radiation treatments. In the US, you can have a $50 copay for each treatment. If you have 30 treatments, that's $1500 on top of the other copays and deductables and miserable prescription coverage.

It's too bad they didn't just go for single payer, but this is what they have, and they'll have to iron out the details accordingly.

And here are a couple of links where people suggest ACA might save money.
But I guess saving money for individuals is not the same as saving money for the gov't. Whatever.

http://duanegraham.wordpress.com/201...an-we-thought/
http://medcitynews.com/2012/05/aca-i...se-for-hiring/
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Old 30.06.2012, 23:34
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

IRS website.... They keep track of how many ssn's are processed yearly.

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Zuger, I'm curious as to where your figures come from. Do Idaho bunkers really have enough capacity to keep 180M Americans off the radar?
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Old 30.06.2012, 23:41
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

There are only 50mn people in the US who pay their taxs and dont receive full refunds. Is that clearer? Just because you file taxs dont mean the governement keeps the funds. If youre a college student who can write off student loans (80% of students) then obviously you get all your income taxs back.

I think 50mn people who filed paid no tax.

Then there are 50mn who pay about 90% of all taxs

Then there are like 30mn people who get small refunds but not 100% refunds. And that makes up 10% of all tax revenues.

Im talking about income tax fyi.

I grew up in Detroit. Unless you work in a union, you never file taxs. Most of my friends from highschool have never filed taxs. Its not that uncommon.


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Only 50m people in the US pay tax? That's clearly not true. Maybe you want to clarify your statement.

And only those who don't have medical insurance will be effected by the healthcare bill, which as I said is about 15% of the population.
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Old 30.06.2012, 23:45
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

http://taxfoundation.org/article/num...continues-grow


These numbers are from 2004. But maybe this will get you to understand my numbers are correct. "40 percent of the U.S. population – are outside of the federal income tax system."
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Old 01.07.2012, 00:23
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Re: US Healthcare - ACA Upheld

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There are only 50mn people in the US who pay their taxs and dont receive full refunds. Is that clearer?
No. Because it's simply not true.

Do you mean US Federal Income tax perhaps?

+/-50% of people who file US Federal Income tax owe nothing because they don't make enough to owe federal income tax.

They do pay payroll tax, social security, unemployment and state and local taxes, sales tax, gas tax, etc, etc. So to say that "There are only 50mn people in the US who pay their tax[e]s" is just wrong.

It's good to be clear and not just repeat talking points verbatim.


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http://taxfoundation.org/article/num...continues-grow

These numbers are from 2004. But maybe this will get you to understand my numbers are correct. "40 percent of the U.S. population – are outside of the federal income tax system."
Ah yes. There you go. It's not the same as "they don't pay taxes". Yes. Around 2009 the number grew from 40% to 50% because of the down turn in the economy. If I'm not mistaken, like in CH, the federal income tax is the smallest %, no? I don't remember exactly.
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