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  #21  
Old 21.07.2012, 11:31
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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It's about time that this two-faced bullshit self denial crap about owning weapons in the USA stopped. How much more blood needs to flow down theater aisles and across school yards before someone has the balls to stand up and defend the try rights of American citizens and takes weapons out of the hands of psychos? .
the gun lovers are blitzed with propaganda daily by the NRA that any kind of control is a "slippery slope" an and invasion of privacy... of course the funding comes from manufacturers and sellers of guns... and they wouldn't want their money making ability infringed upon by "big bad government"

I don't mind the laws here in Switzerland... seems when one person's "freedoms" interfere with another persons right to not be bugged by other persons "freedoms" there is a law for it
I'm new here so I may change my opinon down the road.
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Old 21.07.2012, 11:35
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I actually believe that people should have guns. And also not be restricted to non-automatic weapons.

Guns put power literally into the hands of the people and an armed and trained population is a good check on democracy.
Absolutely. Instead of ballots, it's bullets. It's not the fire within, it's open fire. A trigger happy nation is a .... happy nation.
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  #23  
Old 21.07.2012, 11:37
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I actually believe that people should have guns. And also not be restricted to non-automatic weapons.

Guns put power literally into the hands of the people and an armed and trained population is a good check on the population.
You had a typo. I fixed it.
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  #24  
Old 21.07.2012, 11:38
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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In the wake of this tragedy, some people are saying that this could have been prevented if gun ownership was more restricted. I was wondering if it's appropriate to ask about how the Swiss handle guns. Should that be discussed here or in a different thread?
it's always in the wake of a disaster that people talk about making changes... it's never preventive so it seems.
Then all the hub-bub and media attention goes away... and nothing is done... or the NRA funds a bunch of propaganda to make sure there is a larger group for no control of guns than groups that want to make a change... also there is no middle ground... total control and total freedom is where it stands.

In the states... violence on tv is acceptable even at 10 in the morning... but never any sexual content till after 2100... the Christian moral rightwing moral majority just love killing and wars... but hate sex.
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Old 21.07.2012, 11:44
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I can't help thinking that incidents like this one will get more and more common as long as society doesn't do a better job of integrating people that divert from the norm, and offering challenge & prospects to their youngsters.
Yes, it's all our fault.

The cinema killer was a well-educated man from a middle-class background, doing a PhD at a respectable university.

Is a PhD not enough of a "challenge"? And what greater "prospects" can a person have if they are white, male, middle-class, American, pleasant looking, and with a Doctorate tucked under their arm?
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  #26  
Old 21.07.2012, 12:08
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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Deeply depressing, and another reason (alongside rendition and similar recent issues) that Americas claim to be some sort of beacon of civilisation is redundant and inaccurate
As a Brit, I'll resist the easy temptation to talk about "Americans" here. In the UK, we like to get on our high horses and brag about our cops not carrying guns, and how depraved the US is for arming all these psychopaths. But it's not "Americans", it's individuals -- and statistically very scarce individuals -- who one day flip, usually with no warning.

Before we get too high and mighty in Europe, let's remember that Britain's relatively gun-free society saw the Hungerford Massacre (17 shot dead), Dunblane (18 shot dead) and Cumbria (13 shot dead) -- all by a lone gunman who flipped, and all carrying legally held firearms.

And have we forgotten the name of Anders Breivik so quickly?

As far as I'm concerned, the very many decent, personable Americans I know need feel no guilt or shame or embarrassment about this. It's happening everywhere. What is common to most of these incidents is not the nationality of the killer but their obsessive, psychotic mentality -- and this is not the preserve of the USA.

I'm not going to get involved in the right-to-bear-arms discussion as this is obviously a deeply cultural US issue. But while I don't think that culture will change soon, if ever, it seems like common sense to me that a 'normal' young man who walks into a gun shop in middle America several times in a short period of time and buys 4 high-performance firearms and something in excess of 4,000* rounds of ammunition, should be triggering a red flag on some computer screen somewhere.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
*Edited: latest information is that he bought 6,000 rounds on the internet.

Last edited by Pachyderm; 21.07.2012 at 12:34. Reason: Correction
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  #27  
Old 21.07.2012, 12:19
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

I saw a special presentation comparing Canada to the US. They said that per-capita Canadians had more guns than the US... and yet the shooting death rates were next to null. The difference seems to be the mass populous's attitude toward gun responsibility, no?
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Old 21.07.2012, 12:26
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I saw a special presentation comparing Canada to the US. They said that per-capita Canadians had more guns than the US... and yet the shooting death rates were next to null. The difference seems to be the mass populous's attitude toward gun responsibility, no?
Admittedly the figures are from 2007, but according to this survey, the US has 88 guns per 100 residents, about 3 times the rate for Canada.
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Old 21.07.2012, 12:39
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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Admittedly the figures are from 2007, but according to this survey, the US has 88 guns per 100 residents, about 3 times the rate for Canada.
thanks, it's hard to say when I saw this tv special... probably around 2005?
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  #30  
Old 21.07.2012, 12:43
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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Admittedly the figures are from 2007, but according to this survey, the US has 88 guns per 100 residents, about 3 times the rate for Canada.
ToothCentral still has a point though, because the gun homicide rate per 100'000 is 0.76 in Canada versus 4.14 in the US which equals to about 5.4 times the Canadian rate.

(source: wikipedia)
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  #31  
Old 21.07.2012, 12:53
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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ToothCentral still has a point though, because the gun homicide rate per 100'000 is 0.76 in Canada versus 4.14 in the US which equals to about 5.4 times the Canadian rate.

(source: wikipedia)
I do have a tendency to mix up my information... maybe that's what the reporter was really saying... the equations of the amount of guns and the death rates were not a 1 to 1 relationship, or something like that... but he did go on and on about the mentality of gun owners in both countries.
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  #32  
Old 21.07.2012, 12:54
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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ToothCentral still has a point though, because the gun homicide rate per 100'000 is 0.76 in Canada versus 4.14 in the US which equals to about 5.4 times the Canadian rate.

(source: wikipedia)
Maybe, but this is one of those subjects where no doubt all sides can pull out statistics to reinforce their views. If these figures are correct we're saying that the US has 3 times the rate of gun ownership but 5 times the gun murder rate. Maybe that's not such a huge statistical disparity when you consider the different demographics.

But anyway, I have no stake in this particular argument. I was just pointing out that the belief that Canadians have a higher rate of gun ownership is apparently not the case. Nothing more.
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  #33  
Old 21.07.2012, 14:01
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I actually believe that people should have guns. And also not be restricted to non-automatic weapons.

Guns put power literally into the hands of the people and an armed and trained population is a good check on democracy.
I very much disagree.

I'm American, and it's been my experience that many Americans are not intelligent enough (or emotionally stable enough) to own guns.

Besides, if they were ever willing to fight for democracy, they should have done that back when Gore was screwed out of the Presidency.
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  #34  
Old 21.07.2012, 14:20
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I'm American, and it's been my experience that many Americans are not intelligent enough (or emotionally stable enough) to own guns.
I think that pretty much applies everywhere though, not only to Americans (as Pachyderm pointed out in an earlier post).


So far as owning guns goes... I think we should be allowed, but to privately own a gun and NOT be in the military or law enforcement, you'd only be allowed to own an old fashioned musket. That way you'd pretty much never have the opportunity to kill someone by shooting in a moment of passion because you'd have to go through the complicated loading process before you can fire it.
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Old 21.07.2012, 14:32
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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ToothCentral still has a point though, because the gun homicide rate per 100'000 is 0.76 in Canada versus 4.14 in the US which equals to about 5.4 times the Canadian rate.

(source: wikipedia)
Sort of. You should consider other factors such as population density (and thus number of readily available targets) as well though.
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  #36  
Old 21.07.2012, 15:02
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I am still half-asleep and unsure if I'm reading these right and reading your intent right - but if it is as I think I am understanding, I disagree.

I *think* you are saying that the games make people violent, I don't think this is true. I DO think that people with these tendencies will gravitate toward these games though, just like my hubby would seriously jump on the chance to fight or fly on a dragon if it ever becomes possible, so, he plays games involving knight types and dragons and things like that. Which is also not to say that *everyone* who plays them has this potential to do real violence either.
No, I don't think it makes people violent, but it's a big change from shooting 8-bit space invaders and the utter realism of shooter games these days. Add in a general move towards alienation and other factors and it's easy to make the connection that they may influence some people far more than others. It comes up much too often for there not to be a connection.

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Anyhow, I don't mean to harp on this one event, I have purposefully not read much about it, as soon as they mentioned that among the injured is a 3mo baby, I simply can't. But in general, from the people I know both from within the gaming community and my non-gaming friends, this is a common theme actually. Too much energy, no good outlet.
I thought it was a 6yo who was killed. Either way, you have to wonder WTF as who takes their very young children to an ultra-violent movie at midnight? I originally mentioned to my husband that at least no kids were involved since it was a midnight showing and he mentioned the 6yo. I can't believe they'd even be allowed to bring kids in for an R movie, particularly the midnight premiere. Bizarre.
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Old 21.07.2012, 15:17
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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I can't believe they'd even be allowed to bring kids in for an R movie, particularly the midnight premiere. Bizarre.
It's PG-13, not R, so anyone of any age can go see it. It probably has people dying en masse but no sex, so it's all good. Though America's bizarre movie rating system is another discussion for another day.
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  #38  
Old 21.07.2012, 15:22
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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No, I don't think it makes people violent, but it's a big change from shooting 8-bit space invaders and the utter realism of shooter games these days. Add in a general move towards alienation and other factors and it's easy to make the connection that they may influence some people far more than others. It comes up much too often for there not to be a connection.
I too think there is a connection, but I think you've got the wrong end of the stick.

It isn't that "realistically" violent games bring out the violence in people, but that people HAVE violence in them and BECAUSE so many people are inside (preponderance of tv watching and computer gaming for "rest" activity as well as prevalence of white collar vs blue collar jobs) and not doing much requiring great physical exertion, it stays bottled up.

I think the solution isn't less violence, but rather channeled physical exertion. Instead of cutting PE and recess time at schools, make hiking and exploring part of more classes in addition to PE. Make wrestling and martial arts more common options for school sponsored sports... and all of that also part of sponsored work holidays. So your white collar employer has a gym on premises for employee use, so what.. ALSO have instructors there for martial arts, for wrestling, have a field for soccer and American football and baseball etc.

Of course, here is me, sitting all fat and sassy with these ideas, no physical exertion in my day either.
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Old 21.07.2012, 15:40
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

The fact is, we still have the same DNA of cavemen who had constantly worry about feeding and protecting themselves and their close ones, fight off animals, run for their lives, migrate to avoid the winter, etc. To suggest that we are in any way perfectly adapted for modern existence or that our basic needs and instincts are kept in check or that video games/movies/etc. are major culprits that push people over the edge is, as always, people looking for an easy solution and refusing to ask the hard questions. What's key in society is raising and influencing children (not necessarily your own) to be better than their baser instincts and to be kind to other human beings. It's funny how with violent entertainment out-of-touch adults get to have their cake and eat it too. They're all too happy to have it babysit their kids and outsource their parenting time to it, and is also the perfect scapegoat when something bad happens.
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Old 21.07.2012, 16:06
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Re: At least 20 wounded in shooting at Colorado movie theater

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It comes up much too often for there not to be a connection.
And around 85% of these killers have been fed breast milk. STOP BREAST-FEEDING!!!
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